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The End of Identity Liberalism

nytimes.com

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Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#31

Post by vuanotino »

jshevek wrote: post #25
throwanem wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a number of people who proudly adopt the label, none of whom had even heard of Richard Spencer before NPR and the like started talking him up. I haven't been able to find anyone who even knows anyone who thinks it's accurate to call Richard Spencer the, or even a , leader of the alt-right. If anyone can fairly be said to stand in that role, it'd be Milo Yiannopoulos, so I suppose it's not entirely unreasonable…

I agree it is not reasonable to say Milo is a white supremacist, in fact they seem to hate him. This says something, I think, about how the term alt right is used. While white supremacists coined the term, they clearly don't own it anymore. Whomever Milo is the leader of, they don't overlap well with white supremacists. alt-right.

The alt right is a huge umbrella. Milo is a Jewish sodomite who likes to cross dress, so it's understandable some people of the alt right loathe him. He's seen by some as a Trojan horse.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#35

Post by m_mueller »

gcr wrote: post #26
m_mueller wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you chose to mock your unvle after your first paragraph. Am I missing your /s tag or are you missing the irony .. of calling your uncle your white uncle. why is that so important to have it his main attribute? .. of emphasizing those people - was that really his emphasis or is it rather you who turns around his words into something he didn't say? .. of not trying to understand his point, rather to im…

> If anyone who does that is a bigot, then boy, everyone is a bigot sometime - and the distinction is meaningless. Nah. Different races are different, sure. In-group and out-group. But there's also a power element that you're not considering. Black vs white is in-group and out-group, but one of those groups is disenfranchised. That's where the racism comes in. It is anything but meaningless.

I truly think that if this thinking prevails, then liberalism in the US is doomed.

Sorry to become preaching here, but for the love of science, stop caring about race, gender snd ethnicity so much, instead care about class. There are at least as many white folks with no means to get ahead than black folks - and we haven't yet considered the other major ethnic groups. What you should care about is the 'glass ceiling' installed for a whole class of people who cannot offer their sons and daughters the chance to move up anymore. Liberals need to get back to tackling issues, not identities, that make the American nation such a divided one. And the obvious one to me is education. Forget about affirmative action, make high quality education accessible for any capable resident. Having less in-group vs. out-group thinking will follow automatically when people start thinking that everyone gets a fair chance again.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#36

Post by jacalata »

r00fus wrote: post #21
jimbokun wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably just hoping the Obama coalition would just automatically flow over to her, with no specific outreach on her part. Most of them did (the biggest share of popular votes) just not quite enough to win the Electoral College.

Clinton was down over 5M votes compared to even Obama in 2012. Either the voting machines were hacked, or she did an abysmal job in outreach... her hiring of David Brock (of Correct the Record) to essentially character-assassinate Sanders supporters might have had something to do with her loss - she won the battle then lost the war.

She's down by 3 million now and there are 4 million votes left to count, mostly in Democrat locations like California.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#37

Post by benbenolson »

admstockdale wrote: post #23
egberts1 wrote: post #14

The failure is the liberals overexerting the intersectionality into that those of "FORCED intersectionality". America and the people are always about "UNFORCED intersectionality". Yet, the Democrats will continue their 9-year slide at representation until they get this.

What do you mean by forced intersectionality and unforced intersectionality? Can you expand on this?

I'll take a stab at it.

One of America's many excellent traits is that it is a huge melting pot of diverse cultures and races, that all get along and individually work toward achieving the American Dream. This is the driving force that brings us as Americans together, a strong work ethic and a belief that everyone has the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. However, forced intersectionality is when policies force businesses and the government to diversify their workforce, and unforced is referring to this diversification happening naturally, without the intervention of regulations and explicit calls for diversification.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#38

Post by egberts1 »

benbenolson wrote: post #37
admstockdale wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by forced intersectionality and unforced intersectionality? Can you expand on this?

I'll take a stab at it. One of America's many excellent traits is that it is a huge melting pot of diverse cultures and races, that all get along and individually work toward achieving the American Dream. This is the driving force that brings us as Americans together, a strong work ethic and a belief that everyone has the right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. However, forced intersectionality is when…

Wow... best kept secret. Thank you, benbenolson.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#39

Post by Kalium »

gcr wrote: post #26
m_mueller wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure why you chose to mock your unvle after your first paragraph. Am I missing your /s tag or are you missing the irony .. of calling your uncle your white uncle. why is that so important to have it his main attribute? .. of emphasizing those people - was that really his emphasis or is it rather you who turns around his words into something he didn't say? .. of not trying to understand his point, rather to im…

> If anyone who does that is a bigot, then boy, everyone is a bigot sometime - and the distinction is meaningless. Nah. Different races are different, sure. In-group and out-group. But there's also a power element that you're not considering. Black vs white is in-group and out-group, but one of those groups is disenfranchised. That's where the racism comes in. It is anything but meaningless.

One of the key points in this article is that when you divide people into identity groups, some of those groups are going to feel neglected. As you get at, some of those groups that feel neglected are groups you and I would consider privileged and protected.

Yet... other people don't vote based on what you and I think or feel. They vote based on what they think and feel. If people are treated in a way that makes them feel like they are out-group, regardless of structural power, those people will tend to act like an out-group instead of a powerful in-group.

tl;dr: You can tell people that they're an enfranchised in-group, but if they don't feel that way it might backfire.

Re: The End of Identity Liberalism

#40

Post by linksnapzz »

ryandrake wrote: post #24
apkostka wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you read it, but the article argues against this exact point. The longer a demographic is a part of the American political process, the more politically diverse (and less predictable) they become. The article gives the remarkably high percentage of latinos who voted for Trump.

I read it but I disagree. Identity is not just wrapped up in race--age matters too. History has shown that political change comes with generational change--one funeral as a time. "Latinos" may become more diverse and less predictable year after year, but people (and their political views) don't tend to come back from the dead.

Yes, age matters. People of all races get older and vote with more experience.
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