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California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

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Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#31

Post by Hyperborian »

kinghajj wrote: post #26
Hyperborian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California, and thanks to California's out-sized population a major portion of the current active military are native Californians. That's not even taking in to account National Guard units and such. California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union, and th…

> California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union Perhaps, but remember militaries train discipline and chain of command for a reason. > a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California > California would be a global military power right out the gate, and a nuclear one at that. If there were a serious rebellion…

> Perhaps, but remember militaries train discipline and chain of command for a reason.

Indeed, and that's why its so significant that Californians make up such a large portion of the military. They bring that modern world class military training with them. Without that body of already experienced and trained people, a real military would be essentially impossible for years, even decades.

> If there were a serious rebellion, those would be the first targets. Thousands--even tens of thousands--of lost military and civilian lives would be a small price to pay in the US govt's eyes than to let a new nuclear power spring up on its doorstep.

If it actually reached that point, Californians would probably be just as ready for that.

Regardless, though, my point was that it's not so cut and dried as was suggested. The scenario would not be the full might of the US military against defenseless California, it would in essence be a gutted US military in total disarray against a cobbled together smaller portion of the US military.

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#32

Post by carsongross »

The importance here is not the possibility of immediate secession: there is almost zero chance of that. The importance is that it is getting the left to take secession seriously as a concept.

Eventually we will need to separate out different sovereignties if we all wish to live in peace, in the types of communities we want. Peaceful secessionism is the moral way forward, but it will take many decades for it to work it's way into everyones brain as a legitimate possibility.

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#33

Post by [deleted] »

relics443 wrote: post #27
Hyperborian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California, and thanks to California's out-sized population a major portion of the current active military are native Californians. That's not even taking in to account National Guard units and such. California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union, and th…

You do realize that most members of the military love their country and would not secede? That's why they put their lives on the line. And if you think the US military would simply allow "New California" to take its weapons and facilities, then I have a bridge to sell you.

[deleted]

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#34

Post by relics443 »

Hyperborian wrote: post #31
kinghajj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union Perhaps, but remember militaries train discipline and chain of command for a reason. > a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California > California would be a global military power right out the gate, and a nuclear one at that. If there were a serious rebellion…

> Perhaps, but remember militaries train discipline and chain of command for a reason. Indeed, and that's why its so significant that Californians make up such a large portion of the military. They bring that modern world class military training with them. Without that body of already experienced and trained people, a real military would be essentially impossible for years, even decades. > If there were a serious reb…

Do you actually think that active duty service members would secede along with their home state? Or that the military would allow it?

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#35

Post by mc32 »

Hyperborian wrote: post #31
kinghajj wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union Perhaps, but remember militaries train discipline and chain of command for a reason. > a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California > California would be a global military power right out the gate, and a nuclear one at that. If there were a serious rebellion…

> Perhaps, but remember militaries train discipline and chain of command for a reason. Indeed, and that's why its so significant that Californians make up such a large portion of the military. They bring that modern world class military training with them. Without that body of already experienced and trained people, a real military would be essentially impossible for years, even decades. > If there were a serious reb…

I think you overestimate it. People who go into the military are more conservative than liberal, on average. They are more patriotic on average and on top of that they are part of the _federal_ government and take orders from them.

I don't see many, or any significant amount going rogue and having a mutiny to please the desires of elites in California they probably have little in common with. It's not like the military is made up of mostly elite-college educated graduates who argue over what makes a good grind for poured over coffee at what temperature and humidity, or what are really authentic sessos tacos.

They are also likely not into the virtue signaling game.

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#36

Post by flukus »

tcoppi wrote: post #10
asurachadtrot wrote: post #2

I support #Calexit and I hope this will not just be saying and playing. Trump is a successful businessman and he knows strategy very well. He must already have plans for those protestors, so for those who are really serious about this issue, we should not give in easily.

If you are an American and a true patriot you cannot support Calexit. We need everyone in this together for the future political battles to come. Isolation will not help anyone.

Since when is "true patriot" only something that can apply to the USA?

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#37

Post by relics443 »

nitwit005 wrote: post #18
kinghajj wrote: post #7

States cannot legally secede unilaterally, and there's a no chance in hell Congress would approve. Unless you're willing to form a militia against the US Army that surely would be sent in--which, ironically for California, is more difficult because of the stricter gun control. (Reason had a great headline yesterday--something like, "Trump's election makes liberals realize appeal of limited government.")

I'm not sure the law matters all that much. I'm a bit doubtful the modern day US military would be genuinely willing to use violence to retain a state that tried to leave peacefully and democratically. Also, California already has a militia. We just call it the "National Guard" these days.

Except the National Guard could be called into federal duty by the president, which would most certainly happen in such a scenario. Additionally, their equipment is federal property, and they have to recompense the federal army for certain fungible items they use.

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#38

Post by increment_i »

Hyperborian wrote: post #23
kinghajj wrote: post #7

States cannot legally secede unilaterally, and there's a no chance in hell Congress would approve. Unless you're willing to form a militia against the US Army that surely would be sent in--which, ironically for California, is more difficult because of the stricter gun control. (Reason had a great headline yesterday--something like, "Trump's election makes liberals realize appeal of limited government.")

On the other hand, a very significant number of military bases (packed full of military weapons and equipment) are in California, and thanks to California's out-sized population a major portion of the current active military are native Californians. That's not even taking in to account National Guard units and such. California would take a very significant chunk of the US military with it if it left the union, and th…

This is very unrealistic - those military bases, weapons, and nuclear warheads are property of the US military (whose commander in chief is the President of the United States), not some kind of Californian military outfit that the US is currently leasing.

If a bunch of native Californian generals and colonels tried to commandeer a portion of the US military in support of some Californian revolution, you had better believe that would be seen as an act of war.

Re: California Secession Making Headway in Silicon Valley Community

#39

Post by nitwit005 »

joshlittle wrote: post #3

This would probably kick off a trend if it were successful here. None of the other blue states would be satisfied with the loss of our progressive electoral college voting bloc. It'd put Republicans in the awkward position of denouncing the progressive left's sudden support of states' rights. California, on the other hand, would continue to be a terrific place to live. Preliminarily I would consider supporting #Calex…

The reason we consistently end up with a roughly equal two party split is because the need to get 51% of the vote. The Democrats would just adjust the party platform and pull some dis-satisfied portion(s) of the Republican party in until the vote was roughly 50-50 again.
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