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Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

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Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#31
I don't expect this to be popular, but maybe one route out of this meme-driven, post-truth, clickbaity echo chamber political dystopia is that we get over the idea that it's terrible to pay (or charge) for news. Twenty years ago it seemed great that the net was disrupting traditional news outlets. Now we've played that out a bit, it seems like we miss the kind of work you can do if you have revenue that isn't coming from advertisers or lobbyists.

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#32
post #14

When Hillary lost to one of the worst candidates ever in Trump, then its her fault. But from what I seen in social media, Hillary's supporters are just blaming everyone else for the loss rather than finding fault in their candidate. I have even seen tweets claiming all Trump's voters (60 million people) are sexist, racist etc. It could just be a simple fact that people value other things more than just sexism and rac…

While I'm sure that sexism and racism does play a role for some voters, I believe (anecdotally, without data-based evidence) that its influence is overstated. Commentators who simply point to those factors are demonizing the "other" and perversely, are making it even harder to achieve consensus on issues. After all, how can you respect your opponent if they're sexist or racist?

That aside, broadly, Hillary lost because she:

- Represented the establishment

- Was uninspiring

- Was followed by the aura of 'scandal' (Benghazi and the email server are the two I've heard the most)

I think people were simply tired of establishment politicians who they felt never listened to them and never worked for their interests anyways - and just wanted someone radically different. It also helped that Trump's message "Make America Great Again" is trivially inspiring and broadly resonates. People feel that there's something wrong - that the social contract is gone, and they want to be part of a future where that greatness and their part in it exists again.

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#33
I, as a 6" 3' that identifies as a straight non-binary queer Tuvaluan pink unicorn with two horns and a permanent rainbow above my head, and with a slightly left leaning penis with 3 white hairs on my face and with shoe size 9 whose name begins with Hor and with an ID that end in 237 feel totally discriminated by the fact that there never was a president/multibillionaire with these characteristics.

I offer myself to fill those gaps and avoid this heinous act of discrimination.

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#34
The bit about corporate news being biased towards Hillary makes little sense. In so far as corporates are profit-seeking, Trump is a much better circus to cover. He gets attention, and attention is advertisement dollars. So if you're going to favour someone, it should be Trump. Heck he'll now provide interesting soundbites for years.

Also you cannot dismiss EVERYTHING as being lies. It's just not how lying works. A lie is a slightly modified truth, not a complete fiction. It's also pretty much the same as the hysteria that is being written about, to claim that everything is a lie.

The real story of why he won is a lot less exciting than everyone makes it out to be. He basically said he'll fix everything that's wrong, somehow. Especially whatever is wrong about the job market at the lower end. Economics seems to have gotten buried amid all the name-calling during the campaign, but not in the ballot box. And economics has been the major topic in every election, and every election an establishment candidate has been elected and turned out not to fix the issues.

Hillary wanted to talk about all sorts of things that aren't economics: racial equality, gender issues, foreign policy, experience in government, Trump being himself, and so on. Well, she got Trumped because people didn't care that his style is a bit narcissistic, didn't care that he has zero experience, and didn't care that he has no actual plan. People took a punt on Trump because why buy more of the same thing that doesn't work?

On Bernie, I agree with the article. He talked about a real economic alternative, and would have had a chance.

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#35

I, as a 6" 3' that identifies as a straight non-binary queer Tuvaluan pink unicorn with two horns and a permanent rainbow above my head, and with a slightly left leaning penis with 3 white hairs on my face and with shoe size 9 whose name begins with Hor and with an ID that end in 237 feel totally discriminated by the fact that there never was a president/multibillionaire with these characteristics. I offer myself to…

[deleted]

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#36
post #2

I was in Michigan just after caucusing for Bernie at home, and the sheer amount of people for Bernie or bust among the White, Asian & Black communities was palpable. 10 million less people turned out to vote compared to 2008, and those were nearly exclusively 10 million Obama voters. Voters like this African American gal I met in eastern Michigan who did not vote after Bernie lost, or that of this great group of youn…

>10 million less people turned out to vote compared to 2008, and those were nearly exclusively 10 million Obama voters. This is crazy. Neither Hillary nor Trump even received as many votes as John McCain did back in 2008 (60M) [1], who still lost to Obama by another 10 million votes. It's crazy to actually see how many fewer people voted this election compared to the past two, for whatever reasons. [1] https://lh3.go…

I mean shit, I would vote for McCain if he had been an option this election. He is a very honorable man, and a goddamned national hero, and I say that as a person who conflicts with most of his beliefs.

His tireless opposition to torture is something I wish Obama had, and I truly can respect a person who can stand up and say essentially "I was tortured in Vietnam, how DARE we do this to others. We are not them!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F-YIA-lhQ0

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#37
post #4

> This is the problem with America today, the technology that was supposed to bring us together actually isolated us into echo chambers and drove us further apart. Everybody knows where the other echo chamber is. As a democrat, you are free to watch Fox or read Breitbart. The hard thing is to read it open minded. The average democrat HN visitor probably looks there and stops after two sentences. Then leaves ranting a…

> Everybody knows where the other echo chamber is.

Brilliant. Thank you for that excellent summation, and no, I'm not being the least bit sarcastic. That's awesome.

> I have no idea how to fix this.

Neither do I, really, but let's not jump to the solution before we're done with the diagnosis. Here's an idea: critical thinking is overtaught. Yes, over. I know the common belief is that there's not enough critical thinking out there. I've said it myself many times, but it's a bit of a "little knowledge is dangerous" kind of thing. I see a lot of people, especially in tech, who know just enough critical thinking to pick apart someone else's argument, find its logical flaws, name its fallacies, then dismiss the whole thing. What they never did - what they've never been taught to do - is listen. Yes, it's a skill, and thus learnable. Very little of what people say is completely right or completely wrong. None of it comes without context. Take the OP, for example. There's sure a lot of Bernie butthurt there, but it's there for a reason and there are other nuggets of truth to be gleaned from it as well. Even the most deplorable Trump supporter has something to teach us, though perhaps unintentionally. Critical thinking is awesome, but sometimes we need to put off the critique of falsehood until we've looked for some truth.

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#38

I, as a 6" 3' that identifies as a straight non-binary queer Tuvaluan pink unicorn with two horns and a permanent rainbow above my head, and with a slightly left leaning penis with 3 white hairs on my face and with shoe size 9 whose name begins with Hor and with an ID that end in 237 feel totally discriminated by the fact that there never was a president/multibillionaire with these characteristics. I offer myself to…

That is not the issue and you know it. Hillary could've been almost literally anyone else on the Democrat side and Trump would still have been an incredibly bad outcome for minorities. Many of Hillary's "supporters" - and definitely 80% of people panicking on Twitter - are in fact just terrified of Trump.

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#39
post #14

When Hillary lost to one of the worst candidates ever in Trump, then its her fault. But from what I seen in social media, Hillary's supporters are just blaming everyone else for the loss rather than finding fault in their candidate. I have even seen tweets claiming all Trump's voters (60 million people) are sexist, racist etc. It could just be a simple fact that people value other things more than just sexism and rac…

Hillary was definitely an incredibly weak and flawed candidate. I'm of the opinion that Sanders would've walloped Trump. But I do have some input regarding the racial dimension of things...

>I have even seen tweets claiming all Trump's voters (60 million people) are sexist, racist etc. It could just be a simple fact that people value other things more than just sexism and racism.

I see a campaign that ran on hate and anger for the 'other'. A campaign that white nationalists have called a blessing. A candidate endorsed by the KKK. A candidate that tweeted out a picture of Hillary Clinton with a Star of David affixed to her.

Trump relied upon a lot of economic anxiety as well but much of that was codified in racial terms: that Obama was serving the interests of black folks more, that white people were being marginalized in the culture, that brown rapists are coming for their jobs and their daughters. How can a vote for Trump not be seen as sexist, racist, and xenophobic? I'm sick of this shit saying we need to understand the other side and find out why they are so angry. I think it's pretty clear why Trump supporters are so angry. I've been to Trump rallies, I've talked to supporters, and you know what most of it comes down to? They want 'their' America back. They say they want to end corruption and take down the political establishment, but they voted for a candidate who is stacking the whitehouse with slimeball careerists like Pence, Gingrich, and Christie. But that seems to be okay with them, because it's 'their' side i.e. white revanchists.

In a country with such charged racial history as the US, is it really unbelievable that millions have regressive views regarding race? Look at how awful Obama is treated by some of these people - that he's a muslim, he secretly hates America and funds ISIS. And even if the voters themselves aren't racist, they are complicit in voting for a man who undoubtedly is. Where does that leave them?

Re: Dear Democrats, Read This If You Do Not Understand Why Trump Won

#40

I, as a 6" 3' that identifies as a straight non-binary queer Tuvaluan pink unicorn with two horns and a permanent rainbow above my head, and with a slightly left leaning penis with 3 white hairs on my face and with shoe size 9 whose name begins with Hor and with an ID that end in 237 feel totally discriminated by the fact that there never was a president/multibillionaire with these characteristics. I offer myself to…

Yesterday I was called a faggot for the first time in over five years. It was by a guy in a MAGA hat.

There are swatiskas with Trump 2016 spray-painted in Philly.

You joke, but it's a serious fucking problem when violent white nationalists feel emboldened by their bully president.

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