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22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

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Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#31

Post by rsync »

GarrisonPrime wrote: post #15

"The brainiest it's ever been" makes it sound like it's ramping up the intellect. I guess they're saying that because of the end of the "dumbed-down" core sets, but I doubt it's the case for the game as a whole. I tried getting back into Magic after an 8-year hiatus, and so many of the rules had been changed and simplified that many of the subtleties I enjoyed from before were no longer options. Felt like I was payin…

Can you be more specific ?

While teaching my children to play m:tg I had the same impression as you describe, but I wasn't exactly sure what aspects I was missing ...

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#32

Post by mrob »

moultano wrote: post #3

Does anyone else feel revulsion at the notion of a "mythic rare?" Magic feels like a cross between a brilliant game and a video poker machine.

There's a legitimate non-money-grabbing reason for having rarer cards: limited formats. MtG is divided into "constructed" formats where you build your deck in advance from any legal cards you can obtain, and "limited" formats where you open sealed packs of cards and build your deck on the fly. It doesn't matter if mythic rare cards are unsuitable for limited because they're unlikely to show up there, so it gives the designers more freedom. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_formats

But I think in practice it's mostly about the money.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#33

Post by lsiq »

adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Magic is probably my fav board game, too bad that you have to put in so much time and money to have fun and the value of cards deprecates so quickly. I tried Hearthstone to scratch that itch but that game is just gutted MtG.

To some of you who are a bit disenchanted with MtG's cost (and the 90s style online client), as well as Hearthstone's simplicity - I might recommend Hex:Shards of Fate. It's more or less what MtG would be if WoTC were on top of their game. It's far cheaper and you can play in your underwear.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#34

Post by akud »

rsync wrote: post #31
GarrisonPrime wrote: post #15

"The brainiest it's ever been" makes it sound like it's ramping up the intellect. I guess they're saying that because of the end of the "dumbed-down" core sets, but I doubt it's the case for the game as a whole. I tried getting back into Magic after an 8-year hiatus, and so many of the rules had been changed and simplified that many of the subtleties I enjoyed from before were no longer options. Felt like I was payin…

Can you be more specific ? While teaching my children to play m:tg I had the same impression as you describe, but I wasn't exactly sure what aspects I was missing ...

For me, damage not going on the stack was a big change. That's probably better for the game, but eliminates a lot of tricks.

Also, the cards printed these days tend to not allow you to hose yourself. Take things like detention sphere, that say "exile a non land permanent you don't control." It used to be that those types of cards would exile any non land permanent, do a skilled opponent could, in certain situations, exile something you controlled by bouncing their only non land permanent in response.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#35

Post by germinalphrase »

As a complete aside to this conversation, is there an easy way to unload Magic: The Gathering collections without dumping them on EBay as a single lot (or trying to individually price/sell cards)?

They've been sitting on a shelf for a few too many years.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#36

Post by open_bear »

rsync wrote: post #31
GarrisonPrime wrote: post #15

"The brainiest it's ever been" makes it sound like it's ramping up the intellect. I guess they're saying that because of the end of the "dumbed-down" core sets, but I doubt it's the case for the game as a whole. I tried getting back into Magic after an 8-year hiatus, and so many of the rules had been changed and simplified that many of the subtleties I enjoyed from before were no longer options. Felt like I was payin…

Can you be more specific ? While teaching my children to play m:tg I had the same impression as you describe, but I wasn't exactly sure what aspects I was missing ...

MaRo started a "New World Order" (http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/ne...) design approach in 2011, where they try to manage some of the complexity by making commons and uncommons have less and/or easier abilities. It sound reasonable, as casual players have a lot more commons and uncommons than rares and mythical rares, and it makes learning/enjoyment curve much less steep. Some experienced players associate NWO with "dumbing down the game".

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#37

Post by zeroer »

dbg31415 wrote: post #4
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Magic is probably my fav board game, too bad that you have to put in so much time and money to have fun and the value of cards deprecates so quickly. I tried Hearthstone to scratch that itch but that game is just gutted MtG.

What's a reasonable price to spend? You would probably spend you $15 to go see a two hour movie... I bet you can get away with spending under $7.50 per hour on M:tG. But it is a very expensive game if you buy all the cards and only play it once. I still have cards from the 90s, I don't think I've bought anything in 20 years. Still fun game to play on board game night with friends.

> You would probably spend you $15 to go see a two hour movie

I wouldn't.

> spending under $7.50 per hour

That's absurdly expensive.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#38

Post by emidln »

thiagoharry wrote: post #19
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

Magic is probably my fav board game, too bad that you have to put in so much time and money to have fun and the value of cards deprecates so quickly. I tried Hearthstone to scratch that itch but that game is just gutted MtG.

You can print any card and paste on top of cheap cards, just to play with friends. Its nice to do this with the duel decks for casual fun. If you do this just to play with friends, DMCA never would discover. But of course you can't play tournaments doing this.

For testing I use an open-source program called Cockatrice (search google/github for it). It comes with a utility that can scrape the official wizards card db and then can connect to a multiplayer server. It doesn't support rules enforcement (it's a virtual tabletop), but it does work on Windows/Mac/Linux and gets out of your way enough to be excellent at testing with friends (particularly friends who may not live near you). Add in a voice chat client, and it's actually faster than playing with physical cards (shuffling is faster due to the computer doing it).

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#39

Post by lelandbatey »

sturmeh wrote: post #25
thiagoharry wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can print any card and paste on top of cheap cards, just to play with friends. Its nice to do this with the duel decks for casual fun. If you do this just to play with friends, DMCA never would discover. But of course you can't play tournaments doing this.

The cost and effort of printing duel decks is never going to be less than just buying the product.

Eh, that's only true if you are cash rich and time poor. A booster box with 36 booster packs costs ~$100. At 15 cards per pack, that's 540 cards per box. The latest set has 249 cards, so a box will probably get you close to 2 of each card. But to be guaranteed to have all the cards you want, you may need to buy a second booster box and do some trading/purchasing of individual cards. Total cost is at minimum ~5¢ per card.

But I can also just print 6 cards per page from my black and white laser printer at a cost of up to 8¢ per page, or about 1.3¢ per resulting card (plus cutting them out with scissors). And, this doesn't require an upfront payment of $150+.

So no, I would not say the cost of just buying the product is lower.

Re: 22 years in, Magic: The Gathering is the brainiest it’s ever been (2015)

#40

Post by mrob »

akud wrote: post #34
rsync wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific ? While teaching my children to play m:tg I had the same impression as you describe, but I wasn't exactly sure what aspects I was missing ...

For me, damage not going on the stack was a big change. That's probably better for the game, but eliminates a lot of tricks. Also, the cards printed these days tend to not allow you to hose yourself. Take things like detention sphere, that say "exile a non land permanent you don't control." It used to be that those types of cards would exile any non land permanent, do a skilled opponent could, in certain situations,…

See also the replacement of Shroud (can't be targeted) with Hexproof (can't be targeted by opponents). There's no longer an interesting trade-off where you're sacrificing flexibility by being unable to target your own creatures.
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