Earlier quoted context omitted.
A 650 sqft apartment of 1963 vintage is taxed around 250 euros/year
Which is about a month's rent for it.
[deleted]
In Greece, Property Is Debt
31–40 of 302 posts
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Greece/Taxes-and-C... It looks like property tax tops out at 2% annually of assessed value. This is similar to tax rates in Wisconsin, but if they play the same games in Greece that some local governments do, the properties are assessed well above anything you could sell the property for.
They probably do. My apartment was made in 1963, 63sqm (670sqft). "Zone price" (i.e. what the government considers the price of 1 sqm of development in a certain region) is 1100 euros, building age multiplier for that is 0.60 so we end with a 660 euro/sqm pric, for a total assessment of 41580 euros. I'd be lucky if I got half of that If I actually tried to sell it at the moment.
What area are you in? Compared to Seattle/Portland/San Diego prices, 40k euros seems cheap for a 1963 670sqft apt. A similar house in Tacoma would run 110k euros right now, and it is a terrible location.
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Greece/Taxes-and-C... It looks like property tax tops out at 2% annually of assessed value. This is similar to tax rates in Wisconsin, but if they play the same games in Greece that some local governments do, the properties are assessed well above anything you could sell the property for.
They probably do. My apartment was made in 1963, 63sqm (670sqft). "Zone price" (i.e. what the government considers the price of 1 sqm of development in a certain region) is 1100 euros, building age multiplier for that is 0.60 so we end with a 660 euro/sqm pric, for a total assessment of 41580 euros. I'd be lucky if I got half of that If I actually tried to sell it at the moment.
One of the comments on the article claims there's 0% tax up to 200k property value. Is this incorrect?
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#34This is what happens when you allow uncontrolled and unregulated asset transfers. There's a reason that pretty much any index/stock in the world freezes when the daily drop exceeds a certain threshold (i.e. Japan, JPX, has a limit of usually ~7% [1]).
This prevents panic selling and even though seems like a "delaying-the-inevitable-drop" cop-out, it really does work.
Greece Government are stupid as hell for letting everybody sell their homes all at once. Mass selling off in a region will just cause the housing market to death spiral, just like it does with stocks.
[1]http://www.jpx.co.jp/english/equities/trading/domestic/06.ht...)
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#35Some examples of inheritance would be either old houses at the village or small olive groves.
Many old houses at the village are derelict and the small olive groves have little financial value. The olive groves are generally small because they have been divided among the children through the generations. If an olive grove is not tended for 5-10 years, it becomes unusable and costly to fix.
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand this comment. What about this article makes you think the Greeks can't make decisions for themselves? Is their land unsuitable for farming, and manufacture, and services? Did someone setup an embargo against them? Furthermore, the idea of needing to overhaul things at a global level makes many assumptions. For example, that anyone has the authority and intelligence to tell the entire world how it s…
Decisions for themselves? Hah. It's not in the article, but Schäuble and the other EU finance ministers have set out to make an example out of Greece, or the apparatchiks just don't like the radical lefties that got into power. Paul Krugman has mused, before, EUcrats could tell government officials what to do, and when they follow them, even if the country fails and they get voted out, they'd get cushy EU jobs. But t…
I don't know, all I see is a goverment that tries to perpetuate the old system, only with their people in place. The recent TV spectrum fiasco is a good example. A SYRIZA-friendly construction mogul got a large loan to bid on a license, with no real guarantees except from a pasture whose ownership wasn't even clear. The subsequent findings showed that the bank essentially gave him "free" loans ever since SYRIZA came into power and put their people into various positions in the bank.
The entire system is fucked, and I would consider booting everyone out of the parliament and becoming an EU protectorate a better option for the future of Greece, austerity or no austerity.
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#37The article mentions the word "tax" 14 times, but it never says what it actually is. How bad is it?
The tax would amount to about a month (or two) of rent, if the property was rented. The problem is with properties that are not rented long term.
With austerity feeding on itself as it has been for many years in Greece, the rental market seems to have become flooded with properties. If your citizens have no money, and your economy is shrinking in the double digits every year for years on end, how does anyone do anything economically?
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Decisions for themselves? Hah. It's not in the article, but Schäuble and the other EU finance ministers have set out to make an example out of Greece, or the apparatchiks just don't like the radical lefties that got into power. Paul Krugman has mused, before, EUcrats could tell government officials what to do, and when they follow them, even if the country fails and they get voted out, they'd get cushy EU jobs. But t…
Just so I'm clear, you are claiming that the finance ministers are purposely rigging things so that Greece will fail -- that all those loans and such were part of a plan to make an example out of them. First I've heard of this, but I haven't been following it. It sounds quite far-fetched though. I must be missing something.
I don't know if it's a "plan", but it's definitely a rigidity and "it's our way or the highway", because they can afford it.
The current measures are beyond stupid. They've crippled the country's economy, shut down a large majority of businesses, made the climate hostile to new businesses, and generally ensured that the country doesn't recover.
I don't think we've still seen the worst of it, because the economy has shut down almost completely, and it's still getting worse. The effect of this much deterioration on such a large system will take years to show, and what we're seeing now are the results of policies five years ago.
I'm pretty confident it will get even worse in the next half-decade. Very much to blame for this is the leftist mindset of the average Greek, who thinks "bosses are the devil" and that making the country friendlier to entrepreneurship and investments is anathema.
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Decisions for themselves? Hah. It's not in the article, but Schäuble and the other EU finance ministers have set out to make an example out of Greece, or the apparatchiks just don't like the radical lefties that got into power. Paul Krugman has mused, before, EUcrats could tell government officials what to do, and when they follow them, even if the country fails and they get voted out, they'd get cushy EU jobs. But t…
Just so I'm clear, you are claiming that the finance ministers are purposely rigging things so that Greece will fail -- that all those loans and such were part of a plan to make an example out of them. First I've heard of this, but I haven't been following it. It sounds quite far-fetched though. I must be missing something.
It's not about Greece or the people of Greece or its economy, it is about existing creditors of Greek assets having time to limit exposure and fallout to the broader financial system, as well as provide a framework of deterrents for other large European countries that are practically insolvent
Re: In Greece, Property Is Debt
#40Greek economy was a scam. There is really no way to help them now. They fooled the entire world to get the unearned prosperity of the 00s.
Right. And corporations are actually driven not by profit, but by ideas.
Having TTIP, CETA and all those globalization pacts make this article reality in an EU country. It's not about Greek people waking up after a blissful dream, it's about nation facing reality of capitalism and bankers.