Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#31

Post by bedros » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:00 PM UTC

patmcguire wrote: post #16

I work at a company with a fairly large number of transactions and we don't really have a problem with fraud. I don't know anyone else who's really battled it either. Is it much more prevalent for certain industries and products?

I have my stolen identity in the past, and had over 15 transactions in next few days.

most are buying credit for online services, like online data storage, care.com, etc. and to throw a curve ball, they created yahoo account with my first name plus extra characters and created a subscription to USA today, verified with my fake yahoo account, and sent it to my home.

it happened after I went out with friends to a bar and they had my Amex and ID on a tap.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#32

Post by sly010 » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:02 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #4

This looks very promising. Stripe seems to have sometimes let surprising payments through up to now, even with all the card details security checks they provided activated, and they've never supported 3-D Secure. They've also suffered from surprisingly high rates of unexpected declined charges in our experience. Hopefully if they're now rolling out more comprehensive fraud protection, that will go some way to address…

We had the same experience, unfortunately most of stripes "declined" charges are actually declined by the bank and stripe cannot, nor is willing to help you out. They are just a gateway. Once it happened on my own site with my own card, I called my bank's security team and asked what is the exact reason on their side and all they could tell me over the phone that they declined the transaction only because it was too "high risk"

My theory (just a theory) is:

A. banks fraud detection systems just don't like the way stripe is avoiding the whole merchant account game, so stipe just has a bad rep at banks

B. stripe is so easy to set up and use, therefore various stripe websites has fraudulent transactions going on, so from the bank point of view just being a new merchant coming through stripe is automatically high risk

The whole machine learning for fraud detection imho is very annoying from a merchant point of view, because there is no real way to fix it. We have had cards that got declined only the second-third month in a rent-to-own business and the only thing we can do is to ask the customer to call their bank.

Hopefully once fraud detection happens at the stripe level instead of the bank level, banks will see less fraud coming from stripe and the overall decline rate will ... decline.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#33

Post by joe-stanton » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:04 PM UTC

This looks good, and is sorely needed.

It seems one of Stripe's biggest risks is the impending PSD2/XS2A changes within the EU/UK. This means banks/merchants/retailers will ditch traditional card networks (and their fees) to instruct P2P payments directly. This probably opens up a host of very effective anti-fraud measures too (eg. 2FA with mobile devices).

I wonder how Stripe will react to this major change in the market?

For example: https://developer.americanexpress.com/products/accept-amex

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#34

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:09 PM UTC

falafel_muncher wrote: post #25

mperham wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course. I sell business software, never had a fraudulent transaction ever. But the video game and porn industries, for example? Tons of fraud.

You can prevent a lot of fraud by simply requiring both a postal code and the CVV on the card. It's unlikely that a card thief has both pieces of data. (If you steal the physical card, you won't have the postal code, if you buy a database of cards, unlikely that they will have CVV's)

[deleted]

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#35

Post by tristanho » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

falafel_muncher wrote: post #29

ihsw wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data is from Stripe's handling of 100,000+ businesses' transactions, probably a better dataset than SiftScience. That's a big probably .

doubtful that stripe has 100,000+ business customers. Kount is another good one, that's what Braintree uses apparently.

From the page linked:

"We pinpoint fraud by building behavioral signals from across 100,000+ global companies."

Apparently they do ;)

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#36

Post by markdog12 » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:15 PM UTC

edwinwee wrote: post #30

bflesch wrote: post #12

I like the rotating 3D model in the landing page very much. Are they using some sort of pre-baked library which lets you create such an visualization with 30 lines of Javascript, or is it 100% custom? Maybe someone can point me to a good resource for such elegant WebGL renderings.

Glad you like it! We used Three.js ( https://threejs.org ) to handle rendering the icosahedron itself. Three.js actually includes an icosahedron as one of its built-in primitives, however we also wanted to add some subtle details to the model such as rounded edges. So, we created a rounded version in Cinema 4D, and then rendered both that model as well as an invisible copy of the object using the Three.js primitive.…

Great work, result is awesome. Love how it pops in and fits with the page background nicely. I find your web pages and documentation to be pretty much the nicest on the internet.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#37

Post by eps » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:18 PM UTC

Is there support for whitelisting transactions?

E.g. if we are executing a charge for a known-good customer, but using acompletely new card - we'd like to suppress all automated fraud checks and, ideally, indicate to the client's bank that this is a legit charge.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#38

Post by zrail » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

eps wrote: post #37

Is there support for whitelisting transactions? E.g. if we are executing a charge for a known-good customer, but using acompletely new card - we'd like to suppress all automated fraud checks and, ideally, indicate to the client's bank that this is a legit charge.

You can write your own rules. According to the docs you can only really inspect the current charge, you can't inspect anything about the customer[1]. The ability to look through to the attached customer object at metadata would make a great feature request.

[1]: https://stripe.com/docs/radar/rules/reference

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#39

Post by mgkimsal » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:24 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #17

mgkimsal wrote: post #10

Doesn't seem to be a way to use this without using stripe. Would be handier to send them info, have them give a pass/fail or score, and return that info. And charge for the service, vs having to migrate to them. Thanks to uladzislau - wasn't aware of SiftScience - will have to check them out...

MaxMind is another popular one.

thanks... i knew of maxmind, but only the geo stuff.

Re: Radar – A new set of integrated tools to help prevent fraud

#40

Post by morgante » Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 7:28 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #4

This looks very promising. Stripe seems to have sometimes let surprising payments through up to now, even with all the card details security checks they provided activated, and they've never supported 3-D Secure. They've also suffered from surprisingly high rates of unexpected declined charges in our experience. Hopefully if they're now rolling out more comprehensive fraud protection, that will go some way to address…

> they've never supported 3-D Secure

That's a feature. It's a horrible system which I wish nobody ever used. I've literally never been able to successfully complete a transaction.