Live data from Hacker News

Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

nature.com

31–40 of 40 posts

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#31
post #30
post #25

This is probably the most important research direction in modern neural network research. Neural networks are great at pattern recognition. Things like LSTMs allow pattern recognition through time, so they can develop "memories". This is useful in things like understanding text (the meaning of one word often depends on the previous few words). But how can a neural network know "facts"? Humans have things like books,…

If it sucseeds and scales, it seems very close to AGI, right ?

No-where near it. So far away that it is almost completely nonsensical to talk about it.

I guess it is unlikely that one could have an AGI without some kind of memory, so there is that.

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#32
post #31
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it sucseeds and scales, it seems very close to AGI, right ?

No-where near it. So far away that it is almost completely nonsensical to talk about it. I guess it is unlikely that one could have an AGI without some kind of memory, so there is that.

What further key skills will AGI need ?

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#33
post #32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-where near it. So far away that it is almost completely nonsensical to talk about it. I guess it is unlikely that one could have an AGI without some kind of memory, so there is that.

What further key skills will AGI need ?

That depends on a functional definition of AGI.

My preferred one is "An AGI is one which knows which are sensible questions to ask".

That's because it seems to me that most "AI-lite"-type goals are procedural. AGI needs to have agency.

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#34
post #25

This is probably the most important research direction in modern neural network research. Neural networks are great at pattern recognition. Things like LSTMs allow pattern recognition through time, so they can develop "memories". This is useful in things like understanding text (the meaning of one word often depends on the previous few words). But how can a neural network know "facts"? Humans have things like books,…

Thank you, I think I understand this now. So now we can train a model that doesn't have to learn everything from its weights alone.

Would this be an apt metaphor: LSTM's were like a student who had to know how to take a test and memorize how to do the problems - a DNC can learn how to take the test but it can look at its notes.

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#36
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That problem was solved by a non learning AI system decades ago. Current theorem provers (a related field of AI) solve problems like this in fractions of a second. The progress in the article is getting a learning system to do so, eventually leading us to handle unsolved problems.

This seems like a bit of an unfair comparison. The 'decades ago' solution was a system, built by humans, that can solve this problem (and very closely related ones), whereas this solution is a system, built by humans, that can design a system to solve the problem .

No, it is not an unfair comparison. Those systems were not hand crafted. They were implemented via first-order logic theorem provers. FOL theorem proving is Turing complete and extremely expressive.

This not a me vs you camp. Just a scientific statement.

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That problem was solved by a non learning AI system decades ago. Current theorem provers (a related field of AI) solve problems like this in fractions of a second. The progress in the article is getting a learning system to do so, eventually leading us to handle unsolved problems.

This seems like a bit of an unfair comparison. The 'decades ago' solution was a system, built by humans, that can solve this problem (and very closely related ones), whereas this solution is a system, built by humans, that can design a system to solve the problem .

I agree with the point taniq makes in that those easier systems did in fact require a lot of hand crafting, even if parts were automated. I find it interesting the points at which the usefulness of these approaches plateaus.

I am interested a lot in general game playing, and there is a common problem that while the general systems tend to make interesting progress, it is the systems finely crafted to the game that win competitions.

What I am really, REALLY interested in is what commercial application exist for these types of technologies. Solving a puzzle slightly better than a different tool is fun, but solving a valuable business problem is where the money is at.

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#38
post #32
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No-where near it. So far away that it is almost completely nonsensical to talk about it. I guess it is unlikely that one could have an AGI without some kind of memory, so there is that.

What further key skills will AGI need ?

In general an AGI would be based on a reinforcement learning framework. Its main skill would be to observe the world, judge the situation and perform actions. These three processes are run in a continuous loop. It would receive a reward signal by which it would learn behavior. It would have to be embedded in a world where it can move about and act upon. If it has all these ingredients, it can become a general intelligence, as long as the reward signal is leading it to do that.

Memorizing is just one of the actions such an agent is able to perform. Another mental action besides memory would be attention. It would also need to be able to simulate the world, people and systems it is interacting with (to know how they behave) in order to be able to do reasoning and planning.

In short, an AGI would need: sensing (deep neural nets for vision, audio and other modalities), attention, memory, estimating the desirability and effects of various actions (a kind of imagination), an extensive database of common known facts, and the ability to act (for example by speech and movement).

Many of these systems have been demonstrated. Sensing, attention and memory are common place in ML papers. Creativity is demonstrated in generative models that can write text, music and paint. Ability to predict the future and reason about it was demonstrated in AlphaGo. Speech and motor control are under development. We have most of the necessary blocks, but nobody has put them together to form a functioning general AI yet.

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#39

Some interesting ideas sadly blocked behind a pay-wall journal, all for the purpose of boosting a researcher's prestige because they now hold a "Nature" publication. Thankfully, this article is easily accessible via Sci-Hub. http://www.nature.com.sci-hub.cc/nature/journal/vaop/ncurren...

Did you paste the correct link? When I follow that one, I end up on a page with a few sentences of Cyrillic characters. I picked a button that was probably download and I landed on a captcha that I wasn't able to pass after three tries.

Re: Hybrid computing using a neural network with dynamic external memory

#40

> a DNC can complete a moving blocks puzzle in which changing goals are specified by sequences of symbols A neural network without memory can't do that or can't do it as well perhaps?

In fig. 5a, they compare its performance to that of an LSTM trained on the same problem, and it does seem to do much better.

I am guessing for an LSTM based neural network to learn memory sequencing for the purpose of solving problems will need a much deeper and wider network which a separate memory block tries to provide with ready made logic and much simpler network so it doesn't have to learn those actions.
Post reply on HN