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Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

theguardian.com

31–40 of 153 posts

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#31
post #8

Its ridiculous that supposed advocates endorse having people live in sidewalks as a compassionate policy.

I think you are missing the point. No one wants the homeless to live on the sidewalks, but there isn't a better place for them to go right now. Given that, any proposal removing them from the sidewalks is only going to make their lives more difficult unless it also provides for a alternative, which this bill doesn't do.

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#32

Meanwhile, unused homes outnumber the homeless 6-1 [1], and in Detroit, they bulldoze unused homes because it is more profitable to destroy and rebuild homes that are palatable for 'civilized' people than to let people live in them.[2] [1] http://www.mintpressnews.com/empty-homes-outnumber-the-homel... [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/the-mayor-of-detroits-radical...

Which makes sense. Think of how unfair it would be to those who actually paid for a house.

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#33
Its already the case that as the camps get larger, the police come in with city trucks to force everyone out, then they remove the trash and sometimes seem to steam wash the area.

Removal seems to be roughly based on the proximity of the camp to retail/residential, and the size of the camp. This has been going on since at least the 90s, although the camps are larger and more visible in the last few years.

As a result the homeless kind of blow around, try to find an inconspicuous spot, and hang on until they are ousted again. I've known several people with palette and tarp covered homes tucked away in corners in light industrial areas hang onto a spot for 3 or more years. But usually, a tent on the sidewalk (or a barely running tan RV) establishes a safe place for more tents/RVs/vans/etc and the cycle continues.

Once there are a few people living in a spot, the police become regular visitors because of all the fighting, human waste, theft, etc. Residents constantly call in complaints hoping to raise the bar enough to get them removed.

Since the police are already spending a huge amount of time trying to manage and break down camps, how is this law going to help?

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#34
I have an idea: they should pass a law which forbids homeless people from setting up tents anyplace except certain zones. Those zones will be located in and around the very wealthiest neighborhoods in SF. Any violators will be simply moved to these locations. No funding is even necessary, only the designation of various places (like parks) in the wealthy neighborhoods as OK for homeless people to set up tents and camps.

I predict this would solve the homelessness problem in SF pretty quickly.

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#35
post #4

To an outsider, San Fransisco's policy towards the homeless seems literally insane. Despite the negative frame of the headline, is this obviously a bad idea? It does mention requiring that people be offered a shelter bed.Or if this is a horrible/insensitive/bad idea as stated, what's the smart, thoughtful, and progressive way to change the status quo?

San Francisco spends $241 million[0] of it's $8.9 billion budget[1] on programs to help the homeless and to help folks avoid becoming homeless (through housing assistance, etc). The 2015 count of homeless people in San Francisco is 7,539[2]. This measure doesn't increase spending on the homeless issue but, honestly, the San Francisco govt has shown the ability to absorb funding increases without noticeable impact in…

From your [0] link.

"Eight city departments oversee at least 400 contracts to 76 private organizations"

That says a lot about how spending $31,967.10 for every homeless person can amount to, well, no one seems to know.

I'm curious what happened in New Orleans and the other places referenced that have seen success helping their homeless populations. Knowing even a little bit about systems, layering more complexity (and money) on top of a dysfunctional effort in SF isn't going to meaningfully help.

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#36
post #15
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, the article also points out that the measure doesn't provide any additional funding to pay for the housing that would be needed.

San Francisco spends roughly 35k/year per homeless person. Funding is not the issue. There are all sorts of issues around mental health, drugs, tolerance in certain neighborhoods, political corruption, inefficiencies in government etc. that contribute to the situation we have today. I guarantee you, though, that if a bunch of homeless people started camping out in Pac Heights, the issue would get "resolved" pretty qu…

> Funding is not the issue. There are all sorts of issues around mental health, drugs, tolerance in certain neighborhoods, political corruption, inefficiencies in government

Ho-hum. People become homeless because they don't have money. I've worked alongside more than one tech who has been homeless at some period in their lives. Some slept in their cars, some slept on park benches. Jim Carrey talks about how he was homeless as a teenager, what was the "mental health, drugs" etc. problem he had? He was actually working a full time job as a janitor after school.

San Francisco is full of white, upper middle class prep school assholes who have been handed everything their whole lives, who are parasites like Ron Conman, sucking vampirically off the labor of the young people working at the various startups. They sit in Atherton with their trophy wives and little brats and think up ways to fuck over the homeless people in the city. This is what the czar and his family did in Russia before the Bolsheviks lined those parasites up against the wall in 1918.

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#37
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco spends $241 million[0] of it's $8.9 billion budget[1] on programs to help the homeless and to help folks avoid becoming homeless (through housing assistance, etc). The 2015 count of homeless people in San Francisco is 7,539[2]. This measure doesn't increase spending on the homeless issue but, honestly, the San Francisco govt has shown the ability to absorb funding increases without noticeable impact in…

From your [0] link. "Eight city departments oversee at least 400 contracts to 76 private organizations" That says a lot about how spending $31,967.10 for every homeless person can amount to, well, no one seems to know. I'm curious what happened in New Orleans and the other places referenced that have seen success helping their homeless populations. Knowing even a little bit about systems, layering more complexity (an…

Well considering that NO largely gentrified in the wake of Katrina (essentially the rich literally stealing from the poor), maybe we can look for a better model

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#38

Forgive my crass naïveté, for I live in a chilly northeastern college town where homelessness = death for half the year, but why are people so concerned about keeping the poorest of the poor living at the tiny tip of the wealthiest peninsula in America? Homelessness and the situations that create it are great tragedies. But to me it seems completely absurd that this problem is dealt with a municipal level. Homeless s…

I agree with one of your points: that dealing with homelessness on a municipal level is problematic. It disincentivizes cities from providing extremely good care for its homeless population for fear that it will just attract more homeless people. There are already US cities whose answer to the homeless problem is to buy them a bus ticket to a city where they will be better cared for.

I do, however, think you are being a bit naive with respect to the notion that people are "keeping" the homeless in SF. The city's homeless population chooses to be there, for various reasons including SF's fair year-round weather and the fact that some have a connection to the city going back to before it was the tech-center it is today.

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#39
Why do homeless people camp on sidewalks? Because it works. The question becomes, "works for what?" The proposition appears to mean to make camping "not work," by imposing risk and cost on campers. It's responding to a symptom, but it's like treating cancer with crutches.

What does the street provide an alley or park doesn't? I've said before, the perceived security from non-underclass people walking by. Police protect non-underclass people from violence, and the homeless get this additional benefit by extension by being nearby. In shelters and tent cities, you are more likely to be targeted for crime.

Sure people without addresses have a right to safety and security of person like everyone else, but their behavior (often due to mental illness or drug use or factors outside of their direct control) makes it extra difficult/costly to provide it.

Other people pay a lot of money in tax to the state to reduce their daily exposure to violence, regardless of the factors that might contribute to it. Tent cities are a source of risk, and they are provocative symbols of the limits of the ability of the local government to operate credibly. Governments, mainly for their own sake, must remove tent cities when they pop up, arguably because that's what they were originally chartered to do.

Some may say that the homeless are "just trying to live," but it could be said they are hovering around public services without any sense of responsibility to the local society that provides them.

They are human beings, but ones who take advantage of the lack of a continuous tribal identity in cities, where they can live with people believing they are someone else's problem. People who don't learn to get along get run out of small towns (or worse). Add a drug addiction to severe mental illness, and you basically get a municipal zombie problem.

To me, homelessness is only a complicated problem from the perspective of an ideology that cannot tolerate examples of the limits to its power. Everyone else has solutions, just not ones that reinforce the narcissism of maternalistic policymakers.

Re: Wealthy San Francisco tech investors bankroll bid to ban homeless camps

#40

Forgive my crass naïveté, for I live in a chilly northeastern college town where homelessness = death for half the year, but why are people so concerned about keeping the poorest of the poor living at the tiny tip of the wealthiest peninsula in America? Homelessness and the situations that create it are great tragedies. But to me it seems completely absurd that this problem is dealt with a municipal level. Homeless s…

I don't like having homeless people on the streets but even the homeless have freedoms and the same rights that you and I enjoy. What you are saying is that SF is only for certain people, all others should be made to go.

No, he's not saying that at all. He's asking why this problem should be addressed at the municipal level, and why it isn't being addressed at the state level or federal level instead. It's a valid question: the State of California has a lot more resources to deal with a problem like this than any single municipality within the state, and the Federal government even moreso.

Given how much of a problem homelessness is throughout the state of California, why is the state government not addressing it?

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