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Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#31

Post by Retric »

jessaustin wrote: post #27
whack wrote: post #9

"Search SUBSCRIBELOG INWorld Why Some Wars (Like Syria’s) Get More Attention Than Others (Like Yemen’s) Damage in a house after a Saudi-led airstrike last month in Yemen, whose war has not gotten much attention. MOHAMED AL-SAYAGHI / REUTERS OCTOBER 1, 2016 The Interpreter By AMANDA TAUB It is a truth universally acknowledged by every war correspondent, humanitarian aid worker and Western diplomat: Some wars, like Syr…

But when the world asks why America has forgotten Yemen and other conflicts like it, that has the situation backward. The truth is that inattention is the default, not the exception. It's backward, but for a completely different reason. When has USA "attention" ever helped a war situation? "The world" should be careful what they wish for.

- When has USA "attention" ever helped a war situation?

Depends on what side you are on. Abstractly, I would say WWII was a fairly widespread net benefit, though a strong case could be made for the Korean war and several other more recent conflicts. Though, considering this stuff was before I was born that's tricky.

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#32

Post by yummyfajitas »

acqq wrote: post #25
yummyfajitas wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Creator" and "sponsor" are very odd words to use to describe that relationship. By this logic the UK is the "creator" and "sponsor" of the IRA. In a sense it's true; the folks who wanted to violently revolt against the UK government were, in fact, UK citizens. Similarly, the folks who want to topple the house of Saud and impose their own government on Saudi Arabia are mostly Saudi citizens. But I think it's a stretc…

IRA is irrelevant for this discussion, let's stay on the topic: At the moment ISIS does promote regime change in Saudi Arabia, so the regime there really don't like them related to that, but the former history is very different. They also don't complain to ISIS' application of Sharia (punishments, like decapitations and outlawing homosexuals and atheists) as they are anyway prescribed by the same Sharia understanding…

The IRA is a perfect analogy. If the logic that calls ISIS Saudi is correct, then it's similarly valid to call the IRA a British creation.

If you are unfamiliar with the reducto ad absurdum argument, you can familiarize yourself with it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

At the moment ISIS does promote regime change in Saudi Arabia, so the regime there really don't like them related to that, but the former history is very different.

Yes, and similarly if the IRA jailed rapists and allowed Christianity in territory they controlled, I doubt the UK would object much to that.

The fact that two European groups have cultural similarities doesn't mean that one sponsors the other. The same is true for two middle eastern groups.

Fundamentally, I bring up the IRA because I'm trying to explain by analogy to something more familiar. You seem to be viewing all middle eastern organizations as being somehow monolithic and identical simply because they are more similar to each other than they are to the west. But that's simply a fallacy.

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#33

Post by berntb »

mafribe wrote: post #18
berntb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia might export an extremist and hateful variant of their religion, but they don't advocate terror (you don't rock the boat when you're on top of the world). Iran is probably the world's largest terror exporter (Pakistan might be worse?) and militarily expansionist. I think they even (internally) argue for their goal of controlling the muslim holy places, etc. So Iran actively destabilizes Middle East count…

Saudi Arabia might export an extremist [...] but they don't advocate terror Some contradiction right there. Iran is probably the world's largest [...] militarily expansionist. Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years, and how does this compare with e.g. the Soviet Union, the US, the UK, the Mongols, the Incas? Iran is probably the world's largest terror exporter Reference needed. Which large scale terr…

>> Some contradiction right there.

So just because someone is politically/religiously extreme they are violent?

>> Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years

2 minutes with Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty#Recovery_of_te...

"The Ottoman Turks and Safavids fought over the fertile plains of Iraq for more than 150 years"

(But I understand -- it was _really_ Iranian to start with. Iran's empires have been the only non-expansionist ones in human history. :-) )

>> Iranian terror.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro...

(Edit: Wikipedia for terror is simpler than referencing e.g. the South American stuff, because then you will quote the Iranian priests' declarations of innocence. IIRC, once the Iranian leadership even denied supplying Hamas with weapons at the same time Hamas went out and thanked them. Bad coordination. :-) )

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#34

Post by berntb »

acqq wrote: post #19
berntb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia might export an extremist and hateful variant of their religion, but they don't advocate terror (you don't rock the boat when you're on top of the world). Iran is probably the world's largest terror exporter (Pakistan might be worse?) and militarily expansionist. I think they even (internally) argue for their goal of controlling the muslim holy places, etc. So Iran actively destabilizes Middle East count…

> export an extremist and hateful variant of their religion, but they don't advocate terror How can this sentence even be written? The content of that extremist and hateful religion includes jihad, a duty of believers, which is an armed struggle against unbelievers, until the whole world is Muslim and governed by Sharia "a body of moral and religious law derived from religious prophecy, as opposed to human legislatio…

>> How can this sentence even be written?

I answered that -- it is not in the Saudi interest to rock the boat.

It is fully possible SA is cooperating with the Pakistan government regarding terror against India. But the Saudi government don't want to destabilize the economy of their big customers in the west, at least for now.

[Edit: SA is a brutal dictatorship which spreads religious hatred for internal political reasons, quite like Iran really. I argue that it isn't in their self interest to make the Western world angry. Both as customers and because they want support against Iran. I might of course be wrong, juntas often buy their own hype.]

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#35

Post by jessaustin »

Retric wrote: post #31
jessaustin wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when the world asks why America has forgotten Yemen and other conflicts like it, that has the situation backward. The truth is that inattention is the default, not the exception. It's backward, but for a completely different reason. When has USA "attention" ever helped a war situation? "The world" should be careful what they wish for.

- When has USA "attention" ever helped a war situation? Depends on what side you are on. Abstractly, I would say WWII was a fairly widespread net benefit, though a strong case could be made for the Korean war and several other more recent conflicts. Though, considering this stuff was before I was born that's tricky.

You're right, various situations from the 1950s and before might well qualify. The distance of decades makes it difficult to judge.

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#36

Post by gozur88 »

lisivka wrote: post #10
ilaksh wrote: post #2

They are obviously not isolated wars, and the reasons they give are transparently fake. Look at a map. https://www.google.com/maps/vt/data=RfCSdfNZ0LFPrHSm0ublXdzh... Yemen is a choke point. Syria is in an extremely strategically important position both in terms of territory and it is an ally to Iran. Iraq and Afghanistan are on each side of Iran. Egypt was blocking the Libya invasion. That was a cyber-intelligence c…

ISIS is created by Russia to raise prices of oil and natural gas.

No. The Russians are pretty clearly backing the Assads.

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#37

Post by grkvlt »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #7

Because of you, NY Times, because of you and your friends. You're literally the creators of attention to stuff, so please explain to us, why you chose to cover one war, and ignore another?

Isn't this pretty much exactly what the author is trying to talk about and explain? Note this quote:

> Conflicts gain sustained American attention only when they provide a compelling story line that appeals to both the public and political actors, and for reasons beyond the human toll

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#38

Post by grkvlt »

mafribe wrote: post #18
berntb wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia might export an extremist and hateful variant of their religion, but they don't advocate terror (you don't rock the boat when you're on top of the world). Iran is probably the world's largest terror exporter (Pakistan might be worse?) and militarily expansionist. I think they even (internally) argue for their goal of controlling the muslim holy places, etc. So Iran actively destabilizes Middle East count…

Saudi Arabia might export an extremist [...] but they don't advocate terror Some contradiction right there. Iran is probably the world's largest [...] militarily expansionist. Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years, and how does this compare with e.g. the Soviet Union, the US, the UK, the Mongols, the Incas? Iran is probably the world's largest terror exporter Reference needed. Which large scale terr…

> Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years

Iraq?

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#39

Post by mafribe »

grkvlt wrote: post #38
mafribe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia might export an extremist [...] but they don't advocate terror Some contradiction right there. Iran is probably the world's largest [...] militarily expansionist. Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years, and how does this compare with e.g. the Soviet Union, the US, the UK, the Mongols, the Incas? Iran is probably the world's largest terror exporter Reference needed. Which large scale terr…

> Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years Iraq?

When has that been the case?

The Iran–Iraq War of the 1980s was started by Iraq.

Re: Why Some Wars Get More Attention Than Others

#40

Post by mafribe »

berntb wrote: post #33
mafribe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saudi Arabia might export an extremist [...] but they don't advocate terror Some contradiction right there. Iran is probably the world's largest [...] militarily expansionist. Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years, and how does this compare with e.g. the Soviet Union, the US, the UK, the Mongols, the Incas? Iran is probably the world's largest terror exporter Reference needed. Which large scale terr…

>> Some contradiction right there. So just because someone is politically/religiously extreme they are violent? >> Iran has invaded which countries in the last 2000 years 2 minutes with Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_dynasty#Recovery_of_te... "The Ottoman Turks and Safavids fought over the fertile plains of Iraq for more than 150 years" (But I understand -- it was _really_ Iranian to start with. Ira…

   2 minutes with Wikipedia:
Wikipedia is not a credible source in such matters. Many of the claims are clearly dubious, e.g. "Bahraini security forces [...] arrested a number of suspects linked to Iran's Revolutionary Guards" Oh yes, Bahraini security forces, that fountain of truth, and model of just democracy.
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