Sounds completely illogical to me. So why don't they force the participants to convert to Islam then, if they want them to conform to its dogmas anyways?
Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
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Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#32Is there an example of a social norm that is acceptable in Iran, but would get you jailed in, say, Germany?
Stoning someone to death? Supporting terrorism? Plenty others I figure.
Selling guns? Waterboarding? Bombing countries? Detaining people without due process? Of the top of my head.
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because I am a man, I am allowed to be topless outside in NYC. I wouldn't if I was a woman. The hijab worn in Iran is a lot less restrictive than the hijab worn in a lost of other Muslim countries. I would join in the outrage if the chess players were forced to wear a niqab, but requiring people to wear a loose headscarf is hardly oppression of the worst degree.
Not a particularly good example, women can be topless in NYC: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/24/434315957/...
Which is exactly why as many women as men are going topless in NYC, right?
I could be misguided and maybe women have less tendency of going topless. Do you have any studies at hand?
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because I am a man, I am allowed to be topless outside in NYC. I wouldn't if I was a woman. The hijab worn in Iran is a lot less restrictive than the hijab worn in a lost of other Muslim countries. I would join in the outrage if the chess players were forced to wear a niqab, but requiring people to wear a loose headscarf is hardly oppression of the worst degree.
Not a particularly good example, women can be topless in NYC: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/24/434315957/...
My mistake. I had vague memories that it was illegal in NYC.
Substitute NYC for a city in the USA where it's illegal for women to go topless.
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because I am a man, I am allowed to be topless outside in NYC. I wouldn't if I was a woman. The hijab worn in Iran is a lot less restrictive than the hijab worn in a lost of other Muslim countries. I would join in the outrage if the chess players were forced to wear a niqab, but requiring people to wear a loose headscarf is hardly oppression of the worst degree.
> hardly oppression of the worst degree. The symbolism is what is important. A government that tells you what to dress will certainly not stop with benign restrictions.
But all governments tell you how to dress in some form or another (or there's strongly ingrained beliefs that are de facto law), and it's usually different for men and women.
The question then, is where do we draw the line?
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we all know in practice they would be arrested in most states, even if there were no eventual charges. (Similar to what would happen in Iran)
I'd say a lot of people need to dress better... Half the time I can't tell if a female is even wearing bottom clothes because they are so short... I don't believe a hijab is necessary clothing, but it would be intelligent to dress (modestly) to avoid being "offensive" Dress to attempt to avoid rape or being taken or anything that people may be tempted to do...
> Dress to attempt to avoid rape
That's somehow sexist towards both men and women at the same time. It implies that women are at fault for being raped, due to how they dress, and than men are at fault because they are too weak to control their urges when they can see flesh above the knee.
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Slavery is a cultural norm. Racism a cultural norm. Sexism a cultural norm. Just because something's a cultural norm doesn't mean you should accept it. Social progress is made by fighting against cultural norms that treat groups of people as second-class citizens.
Gun ownership is a social norm. Free Speech in the (extreme) American sense is a social norm. Both are widely rejected by countries, including many in Western civilization. Still a fan of rejecting social norms that are objectionable to many of us? Or only those America doesn't hold dear?
> Gun ownership is a social norm
I am a non-American who owns a couple of firearms. I use them for hunting. There is no intrinsic wrong to firearms. They're a tool. Just like any other tool, they can be used for good or for bad.
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gun ownership is a social norm. Free Speech in the (extreme) American sense is a social norm. Both are widely rejected by countries, including many in Western civilization. Still a fan of rejecting social norms that are objectionable to many of us? Or only those America doesn't hold dear?
> Gun ownership is a social norm I am a non-American who owns a couple of firearms. I use them for hunting. There is no intrinsic wrong to firearms. They're a tool. Just like any other tool, they can be used for good or for bad.
Where do you think are you disagreeing with me?
I have stated that a society allowing private citizens to bear arms is a social norm.
You're talking about the usefulness of guns. Totally no relation.
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd say a lot of people need to dress better... Half the time I can't tell if a female is even wearing bottom clothes because they are so short... I don't believe a hijab is necessary clothing, but it would be intelligent to dress (modestly) to avoid being "offensive" Dress to attempt to avoid rape or being taken or anything that people may be tempted to do...
> Dress to attempt to avoid rape or being taken or anything that people may be tempted to do... Perhaps you don't know, but it's all but illegal to say something like that in US.
Yes... Judging by the number of downvotes...
Re: Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
#40Why the hell is this flagged?