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Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

wsj.com

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Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#31

Post by woodchuck64 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #26
oh_sigh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple version: If a foreign government is unfairly subsidizing an industry, America will slap a tariff on it. This is good policy - imagine, for example, if Airbus could afford to sell their planes for $1, because they are being entirely subsidized by the French government. Everyone buys airbus, no one buys Boeing any more. Boeing(along with tens of thousands of jobs) goes bye bye, and now Airbus starts selling…

Clearly then the US and EU should slap tariffs on Apple, as it was being unfairly subsidized by Irish tax scheme.

Just a matter of time. http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/09/technology/apple-tax-us-tipo...

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#32

Post by joe_the_user »

rrggrr wrote: post #17
danielvf wrote: post #2

The article mentions that aluminum prices have fallen 50% since 2010. However, prices were double historical normal from 2005 to 2011. The price lowering was just a return to normal prices.

This is correct. Three factors drove the bubble in aluminum and other commodities: Increased energy expense, speculative and fraudulent investment, and some increased consumption. However, three factors are likely to continue to drive aluminum and other commodities under the mean: Lack of confidence, spectacular debt burdens and deflationary trends across commodity price inputs. Its likely to be years before a stable…

Indeed, one of the motivations for speculation has been the continuous (electronic) printing of money by the US and other governments (combined with massive infrastructure projects by China), leading many investors to logically-if-naively believe that commodity prices (especially gold) would follow "real" money. The problem is that all commodities are actually produced and consumed and speculation simply causes disproportionate production followed by a crash.

And, of course, there are a number of ways to do speculation in a bear market but altogether, more money is going to be made in a bull market.

Even more, since the money coming out of quantitative easing isn't going into consumer goods (that much), it has to go into speculation and it thus seems likely the various kinds of market imbalances will or get worse.

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#33

Post by czep »

It's infuriating how these crooks are the ones who get to be rich, while people who play by the rules, work and live honestly, end up being in debt to these criminals.

Nice bit of reporting by WSJ. I'm sure they will also get blocked in China, just like when NYT reported on the massive wealth of Party officials.

In a few years when people ask "when did the war start?" We might be pointing to this very incident, and many others like it.

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#34

Post by joe_the_user »

czep wrote: post #33

It's infuriating how these crooks are the ones who get to be rich, while people who play by the rules, work and live honestly, end up being in debt to these criminals. Nice bit of reporting by WSJ. I'm sure they will also get blocked in China, just like when NYT reported on the massive wealth of Party officials. In a few years when people ask "when did the war start?" We might be pointing to this very incident, and m…

Which crooks shall we start with first? The Chinese crooks, the American crooks or perhaps crooks of a less powerful third nation?

IE, US brokerages have engaged in similar or even more baldly speculative dodges -

NYTimes: "Hundreds of millions of times a day, thirsty Americans open a can of soda, beer or juice. And every time they do it, they pay a fraction of a penny more because of a shrewd maneuver by Goldman Sachs and other financial players that ultimately costs consumers billions of dollars."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/a-shuffle-of-alum...

And whether any of this actually illegal is to-be-determined but we're dealing with the people who make the laws, fighting with other people who also make their laws, right?

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#35

Post by [deleted] »

czep wrote: post #33

It's infuriating how these crooks are the ones who get to be rich, while people who play by the rules, work and live honestly, end up being in debt to these criminals. Nice bit of reporting by WSJ. I'm sure they will also get blocked in China, just like when NYT reported on the massive wealth of Party officials. In a few years when people ask "when did the war start?" We might be pointing to this very incident, and m…

[deleted]

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#36

Post by dilemma »

oh_sigh wrote: post #13
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not clear he's done anything wrong. Shipping Aluminum to Mexico? What's the problem.

The simple version: If a foreign government is unfairly subsidizing an industry, America will slap a tariff on it. This is good policy - imagine, for example, if Airbus could afford to sell their planes for $1, because they are being entirely subsidized by the French government. Everyone buys airbus, no one buys Boeing any more. Boeing(along with tens of thousands of jobs) goes bye bye, and now Airbus starts selling…

Why hasn't America slapped a tariff on Uber and Tesla?

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#37

Post by enoch_r »

oh_sigh wrote: post #13
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not clear he's done anything wrong. Shipping Aluminum to Mexico? What's the problem.

The simple version: If a foreign government is unfairly subsidizing an industry, America will slap a tariff on it. This is good policy - imagine, for example, if Airbus could afford to sell their planes for $1, because they are being entirely subsidized by the French government. Everyone buys airbus, no one buys Boeing any more. Boeing(along with tens of thousands of jobs) goes bye bye, and now Airbus starts selling…

To play devil's advocate, can someone provide a single historical example of a case where dumping "worked," in the sense that one country's manufacturers were able to rake in large profits after their foreign competitors went out of business due to subsidies?

Because unless dumping actually succeeds at that goal, and I don't see any evidence that it does, it seems indistinguishable to American consumers from a huge technical advance in a foreign country lowering the cost of some import--yes, it may be detrimental to domestic producers, but it's a huge benefit to domestic consumers and a net benefit overall.

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#38

Post by ericjang »

oh_sigh wrote: post #13
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not clear he's done anything wrong. Shipping Aluminum to Mexico? What's the problem.

The simple version: If a foreign government is unfairly subsidizing an industry, America will slap a tariff on it. This is good policy - imagine, for example, if Airbus could afford to sell their planes for $1, because they are being entirely subsidized by the French government. Everyone buys airbus, no one buys Boeing any more. Boeing(along with tens of thousands of jobs) goes bye bye, and now Airbus starts selling…

Thanks for your explanation. Then why does America subsidize its sugar/agriculture industries so heavily?

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#39

Post by HillaryBriss »

dilemma wrote: post #36
oh_sigh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple version: If a foreign government is unfairly subsidizing an industry, America will slap a tariff on it. This is good policy - imagine, for example, if Airbus could afford to sell their planes for $1, because they are being entirely subsidized by the French government. Everyone buys airbus, no one buys Boeing any more. Boeing(along with tens of thousands of jobs) goes bye bye, and now Airbus starts selling…

Why hasn't America slapped a tariff on Uber and Tesla?

tariffs are levied on imports

Re: Chinese Billionaire Linked to Giant Aluminum Stockpile in Mexican Desert

#40

Post by malchow »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #25

One of the reader comments said: "Extradite him to the US and then prosecute him. Getting rich without any merits is horrible." and I thought: you must be new here

Really? Wouldn't you think U.S. has the lowest proportion of "rich without merits" as %age of rich of any nation in the world – and indeed in history of world?
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