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People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#31
post #21

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did. Maybe this is because the interviewee feels partly abused, as if communication isn't a two-way street. I think interviews would be less terrible if interviewers actually told you at the end that you did above/aswell as/below expectations, and/or why instead o…

>I think interviews would be less terrible if interviewers actually told you at the end that you did above/as well as/below expectations

This happens quite often in phone interviews. My clients have regularly told candidates "We'll be inviting you in" at the end of a phone interview.

The issue with this for on-site interviews is that they tend to be with multiple individuals/groups, and getting those groups together to discuss the candidate's performance while the candidate is still on-site is a mess logistically. It would be ideal, but usually there will need to be some discussions among the panels.

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#32
I've never interviewed for a job I didn't get. Possibly because I aim too low. But if I were to present myself honestly as a potential employee, I would enter the interview without greeting or making eye contact, then I would sit as far away from the interviewer as possible and doodle in a notebook for 15 minutes before raising my head and explaining everything I think is wrong about the company.

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#33
post #20

These interview training programs seems to be really reminiscent of coding bootcamps and appear to have grown rapidly in a very short period of time. I think I'd almost prefer interviewees being judged based on the schools they attended and companies they worked at. I'm not sure that I find the ability to cram for data structures and algorithms questions to be indicative of intelligence and problem solving skills. Sc…

Algorithms and elite schools doesn't tell me whether you'll use the right-sized solution for a problem and be able to prioritize and focus on tasks accordingly. It doesn't tell me if you can perceive and extract requirements well and have a process of communication and a professionalism of management in how you go about getting to solutions that work for the humans that will be using it.

It also doesn't tell me about your personal value system and whether you are passionate about creating good user experiences or if you are just interested in a technical playground or if you are a social climber or what.

It also doesn't tell me if you are highly opinionated and want to do things your own way or if you are flexible enough to deal with the imperfections of the real world. I don't know whether you value the mantra that the perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good.

No, none of these brain teasers or abstract bootcamp style things tell me that - and those are the actual things that will make or break a company and determine whether your product will hit the market on time. Those are the things that will get you a customer base and will create a company culture of productivity and not something that doesn't lead to results.

Until interviews become more about how people approach work and their ethic and process of conducting it (which is a major part of classical engineering), these are ineffective tools for finding the right people.

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[1] although as a disclaimer, I strongly prefer companies of under 20 employees. If you have 200, then the employees can be more insulated from the exposure to these types of risk and the necessity of this type of vertical thinking. But it's an "insulation" - everyone is working either directly or tangentially on something that is intended to be used by something in the world (usually humans).

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#34
What a hatchet job.

Unfortunately we don't have the raw data available; but all we can infer from these heatmaps is that yes (and exactly as one would expect) there's a bit of variance between between the two sets of ratings (in both directions). Maybe a bit more than can be explained by the sample size, or from the simple fact people (on both sides of the process) are forced to discretize their assessments (so even if both parties were to objectively agree that the "real" performance was in the 2.4-2.7 range, which it is a good chunk of the time.... inevitably you'll find them be off by +/- 1 in their quantile assignments a good chunk of the time -- which is exactly what the data seem to show).

In particular: independent of how we explain the variance (whether due to sampling effects, or bona fide DK/IS) note that the vast majority of the variance is in the +/- 1 range. And on the alleged DK side (-2 variance) the measure is apparently quite miniscule.

However, that's not the original D-K effect. What D-K specifically predicted (and were able to show with much better data and methodology -- in their very specific sample population, at least) is that, among the general population there will be a striking degree of -2 variance, specifically in the bottom quartile. Going by the oft-quoted abstract from their original paper:

Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

In other words: "Performers in the bottom quartile estimated themselves to be performing, on average, at mean performance in the third quartile."

So if were to look for something analogous to a D-K effect, we'd expect to find a "hot spot" (or at least the strongest amount of red ink, for that quartile) in the upper left of the first chart.

Instead we find most performers in the bottom quartile (correctly) identifying themselves as in the bottom quartile; with a smaller portion bleeding up into the second quarter; and an an almost negligible portion placing themselves in the D-K zone -- namely, the third quarter.

If anything what the data show is that (even assuming there's nothing to contend with in how the actual data were taken), while inevitably there's some variance (both ways) in the two sets of rankings, and probably some of due to distorted self-perception -- on the whole there's actually much less of a D-K effect among engineers than among the general population (or rather, "Cornell undergraduates taking psychology classes" -- which, lest we forget, were the actual subject class used in the original D-K study).

So basically the opposite of what the author of the original article is claiming to infer from this data.

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#35
post #6

I often wonder how would these people hire soldiers? "So I see you have no previous experience in killing people... We are looking for people that have at least 5 years of experience in killing people." My point is you need smart enough people for your job and nothing more. You do an IQ test, a personality one and that's all. The rest can be learned.

> My point is you need smart enough people for your job and nothing more. You do an IQ test, a personality one and that's all. The rest can be learned.

Company culture matters. Even the most intelligent people that are willing to grow will fizzle if they are in an environment that isn't productive.

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#36
post #8
post #3

Maybe I'm missing something, but why isn't the implication going the other direction? In my experience, the problem is that interviewers have no idea how to correctly value a candidate's performance. Maybe the candidates are closer to being well-calibrated, but their self-assessments don't match up with the interviewers' because the interviewers don't know how to gauge what they are looking for? Making the assumption…

:)) Just the other day a manager said "HR is overwhelmed. They have a student that filters the CVs and she is doing all she can." The senior programmer exploded "How is a student any good at filtering programmers, she does not know anything about programming!".

Based on your comments in this thread, it sounds like you may need a new job.

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#37
post #7

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did. This is the key takeaway for me. This is IMO and experience probably based on a "sour grapes" type defense mechanism, where candidates will internally try to talk themselves out of wanting a job that they felt they didn't get. They walk out of the interview f…

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did.

Wait. They think they didn't do well, got an offer, but turned it down because they think they didn't do well on the interview?

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#38
post #17
post #7

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did. This is the key takeaway for me. This is IMO and experience probably based on a "sour grapes" type defense mechanism, where candidates will internally try to talk themselves out of wanting a job that they felt they didn't get. They walk out of the interview f…

I absolutely judge a company by the interview process and the questions they ask. "Would I want to work for a company where the employees pass their given process?"

A company's bad interview process might have nothing at all to do with the rest of the company.

At this point, isn't it generally accepted that all tech interviewing sucks, and companies would do better throwing darts at resumes?

If all interviewing is bad, and all companies are not bad, there's no benefit to judging a company based on that process.

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#39
post #37
post #7

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did. This is the key takeaway for me. This is IMO and experience probably based on a "sour grapes" type defense mechanism, where candidates will internally try to talk themselves out of wanting a job that they felt they didn't get. They walk out of the interview f…

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did. Wait. They think they didn't do well, got an offer, but turned it down because they think they didn't do well on the interview?

I think the idea is that they think they didn't do well, decide that on second thought, they don't really want the job anyway, and move on to the next possible opportunity. Then if later they get an offer, they don't change their mind.

Re: People are still bad at gauging their own interview performance

#40
post #37
post #7

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did. This is the key takeaway for me. This is IMO and experience probably based on a "sour grapes" type defense mechanism, where candidates will internally try to talk themselves out of wanting a job that they felt they didn't get. They walk out of the interview f…

>some portion of interviewees are losing interest in joining your company just because they didn’t think they did well, despite the fact that they actually did. Wait. They think they didn't do well, got an offer, but turned it down because they think they didn't do well on the interview?

Yep. They had a bad experience during the interview. When they ask themselves "how do I feel about this company?", their main data point is negative.
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