31–40 of 63 posts
Meanwhile the Kochs have likely given around seven figures to ALEC[1], which has pushed aggressively for enhancing the laws[2] that Charles Koch is now, apparently, deeply opposed to. Maybe it's a turn of heart, but I'm rather skeptical. [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/alec-exposed-koch-connecti... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-pr...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a liberal, but does it occur to you that your perception of this may be majorly colored by your own bias? If you had read a similar piece with conservatives replaced by progressives, who would feature in it? George Soros? One can also say that your moral indignation is only surface-deep. For example: "The Koch brothers employ former convicts because they know they can pay them low wages and work then hard in thei…
Whoah buddy, I wasn't attacking you maybe you don't need to be so aggressive with me? > First of all, they don't know when setting the initial salary who is a former convict and who isn't. They don't have to know which individuals are. They put out there that they are willing/happy to hire ex-cons for these jobs and they will get them applying, and accepting lower salaries, lack of benefits, worse working conditions,…
Applebees may not be very good in your opinion, but it's better than starvation or scrounging for scraps.
That's the problem with simply expressing outrage and not offering any real solutions, while shooting down solutions that people in the situation actually choose, because that's what is available.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"ALEC has proven expertly capable of devising endless ways to help private corporations benefit from the country’s massive prison population." Gross. "That mass incarceration would create a huge captive workforce was anticipated long before the US prison population reached its peak—and at a time when the concept of “rehabilitation” was still considered part of the mission of prisons." Are we finally admitting that th…
How is this different than slavery? Oh, if they're paid $0.20/hr they're not slaves? I think the relevant question is whether the labour is forced. My understanding is that prison workforces are comprised of inmates who request to take part.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Whoah buddy, I wasn't attacking you maybe you don't need to be so aggressive with me? > First of all, they don't know when setting the initial salary who is a former convict and who isn't. They don't have to know which individuals are. They put out there that they are willing/happy to hire ex-cons for these jobs and they will get them applying, and accepting lower salaries, lack of benefits, worse working conditions,…
I would say that an organization refusing employment on the basis of past convictions does them worse than an organization offering employment to those same people. They are free to decline it if they find "fair wages and good working conditions" at organizations which "are not taking advantage of their circumstance." It's strange to blame the self-interest of the one offering employment without offering an alternati…
I'm saying it's not OK because exploitation is exploitation, and it's immoral. The Koch brothers should be required to pay fair wages and ethical working conditions.
I am providing an alternative scenario you are just refusing to acknowledge it I guess because I'm not a billionaire industrialist who can actually offer jobs to the people being taken advantage of?
Meanwhile the Kochs have likely given around seven figures to ALEC[1], which has pushed aggressively for enhancing the laws[2] that Charles Koch is now, apparently, deeply opposed to. Maybe it's a turn of heart, but I'm rather skeptical. [1] https://www.thenation.com/article/alec-exposed-koch-connecti... [2] https://www.thenation.com/article/hidden-history-alec-and-pr...
Will you be voting for Hillary Clinton? If so, does that mean you support mass surveillance and incessantly bombing the Middle East?
Oh, and thinks that besides not bombing enough, the other problem is a lack of using nukes.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Everybody believes what they push for is for the best. You believe what you're pushing for is for the best too! That's what people do. I don't understand. I've known people to say things such as, "we're not good people," or, "honestly, why would I care about that?" I knew someone who did an oil change in his truck on the top floor of a parking garage, and let the oil drain down the storm drain - I said, "are you awa…
The problem is, I think you're fundamentally willing to accept that the conservative point of view is "wrong" and the liberal point of view is "right", and therefore, you believe the Koch brothers don't know what is right or don't care. There are both appealing and disgusting points in both the conservative and liberal rhetorics, and we get nowhere if we assume that is the case. People's right and wrong (and level of…
This is not an opinion. To the extent society had constructed objective ways to determine facts, the existence of human driven global warming is as much of a fact as you can get.
Unfortunately, in American politics, conservatives often fall afoul of reality. And its not a coincidence. The conservative side is the one actively discrediting science and expertise, and promoting religion and gut feel as real sources of knowledge.
There is an actual asymmetry which exists between the American conservative and liberal movements, in terms of accepting reality, which has been deliberately generated over the past few decades.
Its really hard to ignore this, and unfortunately makes a lot of the both sides do it statements horribly wrong.
This isnt to say liberals are immune to ignoring reality and facts. But they are far less likely to do so because they arent driven by a movement deeicated to discrediting the best (albeit imperfect) sources and methods of determinkng knowledge that humans have derived yet.
Eh, if it makes Mike Rowe feel any better, I crush on him and, off the top of my head, I can only think of a couple of other celebrities I crush on.
Glad to see him doing this kind of work and kudos to him for building bridges and getting shit done. To hell with the folks writing him hate mail over him collaborating with the "wrong" people in order to do good works.
Refreshing to read something about the need for labor and skills on HN instead of basic income.
I've gained a massive, massive respect for Mike Rowe over the past 5-10 years. He works to make the world a better place through education and understanding, and this post is a perfect example of this. Kudos to him for speaking out and standing his ground, rather than crumbling to nonsensical public pressure.
Come on. Koch is literally paying him. How is it brave to write a letter endorsing the person that is paying for you to run your charities? How is this not a paid endorsement?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everybody believes what they push for is for the best. You believe what you're pushing for is for the best too! That's what people do. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if the Koch brothers are evil incarnate or not, if Mike Rowe got them to dump a big pile of money into a good cause. You can both keep your opinion of the Koch brothers, without lowering your opinion of Mike Rowe. Because all he did…
I made the point you made in my comment and then addressed why I think it's not good enough, so I'm not sure what your point is in rehashing it? As far as why I think badly of Mr. Rowe, it's not because he took a donation from Charles Koch but that he's actually written a fluff piece about Charles Koch here. If he said "Hey the guy pushes some terrible stuff, but I took his money and put it to good use." I'd say fair…
It really isn't. The Kochs are libertarians who genuinely believe that smaller and less intrusive government would benefit everyone. You can disagree with that theory, and you may even be correct, but it's not obviously stupid or evil.
(If your response is "they're climate change deniers", see https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/20.... There's still plenty you'll disagree with, but if anything they're to the left of the average conservative).