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Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

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Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#31

Post by lifeisstillgood »

jzwinck wrote: post #28

The more bizarre part is how the various federal agencies do not coordinate. For example, the "fear they will be unable to collect Social Security benefits they have paid into." This means these people are paying taxes to the IRS who collects SS money from them yet they are "not eligible" to work in the US. This is "impossible" but the tax man doesn't ask questions when people send him money. I think if someone has p…

I like the idea, but it firstly makes "purchasing citizenship" a thing (as if it is not already) and it has an underlying principle that is more useful - if you spend ten years openly in a country and are not a criminal, then you get to stay, which is a much better principle.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#32

Post by PhasmaFelis »

drinchev wrote: post #20

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship.

We've got a lot of racist assholes, basically. Particularly ironic for a country that was founded on immigration. These laws, and their heavy-handed enforcement, are mainly targeted at keeping out Mexicans. European and Asian immigrants are collateral damage, essentially.

Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Switzerland that denied citizenship to a couple of teenage Muslim girls because they didn't want to swim with boys in mandatory co-ed swim class. They've also banned minarets on mosques, apparently--I have no clue how they pretend to justify that. Xenophobia makes people do ridiculous things.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#33

Post by rdtsc »

erkose wrote: post #21
rdtsc wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't, not without an amendment it seems. These people were too old to qualify. The reason the law was that way is to prevent loopholes like someone adopting a 30 year old person and then using this law to naturalize them.

If he was entitled to citizenship at the time of his adoption, and his adoptive parents failed to file the paperwork, then he should be entitled to citizenship regardless of his age. There are certainly many ways to abuse the system, but I prefer to err on the side of good faith.

> but I prefer to err on the side of good faith.

Usually though good faith and bureaucracy don't mix. It is dangerous to have faith in bureaucracy. In a way that is what the parents did, how the girl at the end said her parent just believed common sense would prevail and even if there is a missing paper here and there, someone sitting across the desk will understand and fix the error eventually.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#34

Post by parineum »

drinchev wrote: post #29
justinlardinois wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US you can begin the naturalization process after five years of permanent residency. A green card is what establishes permanent residency. (I don't think we have permanent visas, but I could be wrong.) I can only speculate how your friend was allowed to live in this country that long without ever obtaining permanent residency, but regardless, it's an example of the system failing, and that's a really terrible…

Well as far as I can remember the story, their parents were there with a working VISA ( extended through time ) and she got at one point ( I think at 18? ) a study VISA until it all expired after university.

Forgive me if this sounds harsh but shouldn't she have applied for a green card as soon as she turned 18?

I don't know the ins and outs of immigration but that's because I'm a citizen. If I wasn't, I'd sure as hell know what I needed to do in order to stay in the only country I'd ever known as home.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#35

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

The most curious instance I've heard of this was a man who came in as a young child and joined the Army (perfectly legal for non-citizens). While in the service he was an MP and then took a job as a police officer after finishing his service. The problem came that without citizenship he couldn't legally work as a LEO and all of his arrests were technically invalid. As an MP, though, he was working under the exclusive authority of the executive and no such conflict was present.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#36

Post by rcthompson »

rdtsc wrote: post #16

I thought an executive decision is all it's needed but apparently not. Interestingly, there is a special law to expedite naturalization for those who "made an extraordinary contribution to the national security of the United States or to the conduct of United States intelligence activities". But even there it's a 5 person per year maximum. https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title8/html/USCODE... Congress can c…

That sounds like a law written decades ago as a lure for high-value defectors from the USSR during the Cold War.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#37

Post by tarikjn »

parineum wrote: post #34
drinchev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well as far as I can remember the story, their parents were there with a working VISA ( extended through time ) and she got at one point ( I think at 18? ) a study VISA until it all expired after university.

Forgive me if this sounds harsh but shouldn't she have applied for a green card as soon as she turned 18? I don't know the ins and outs of immigration but that's because I'm a citizen. If I wasn't, I'd sure as hell know what I needed to do in order to stay in the only country I'd ever known as home.

It's not harsh, but your reply just proved the point of either how little Americans know about their immigration system or how it much nonsensical it is.

According drinchev, I can assume that when his/her friend turned 18 she would have had to go through the process to apply for green card just as if she never lived in the US.

I know someone who was in a similar situation, grew up in America, his parents were diplomats, when he turned 21 he could not longer be a dependent of his parents' status, and the amount of time he lived legally had no benefit in giving him eligibility to apply for a green card.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#38

Post by bruceb »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #32
drinchev wrote: post #20

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. We've got a lot of racist assholes, basically. Particularly ironic for a country that was founded on immigration. These laws, and their heavy-handed enforcement, are mainly targeted at keeping out Mexicans. European and Asian immigrants are collateral damage, essentially. Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Sw…

Heavy handed enforcement? If we had that we would not have 12m people here illegally.

Wanting to keep national character is respecting culture. Switzerland is right to defend equality

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#39

Post by prance »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #32
drinchev wrote: post #20

I know a girl that had to leave the U.S. >24 The story ( as far as I can remember ) is that a family of Germans moved to the U.S. with their 1 year old child. 24 years later the child graduated university and ... needs to apply for a green card or permanent VISA. US government refused, so she had to come back to Germany. I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. In most of the EU countr…

> I've never understood why U.S. is so protective in terms of citizenship. We've got a lot of racist assholes, basically. Particularly ironic for a country that was founded on immigration. These laws, and their heavy-handed enforcement, are mainly targeted at keeping out Mexicans. European and Asian immigrants are collateral damage, essentially. Europe, unfortunately, is starting to go the same way. I think it was Sw…

Why is this down voted? It is the truth.

Re: Thousands of adoptees thought they were US citizens but learned they are not

#40

Post by nickff »

8611m wrote: post #26
nickff wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA does have similar rules, but there are some restrictions based on what you can prove, and your status upon entry.

What are these rules that you refer to? I know a lot of people who could benefit from such rules having come to the United States legally and spending 10 years and has to leave because their visas were expiring.

I am not too familiar with the details, but the government website is informative, as is the Wikipedia article.[1][2]

[1] https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-nat...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization#.C2.A0United_St...

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