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Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

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Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#31

Post by fisherjeff »

rsync wrote: post #23
noselasd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. As with other satellite phones, security/encryption is an additional feature that you buy. For everyone else, there's no security/encryption - you just need to implement the system and protocols to tap into it - which is what has been done here. (And for the parts that have encryption, it's the data that's encrypted, while metadata (e.g. call setup) is still plain text)

Also ... correct me if I misremember ... but I think it is the case that with Iridium - encryption or no encryption - Eve can discern your physical location and get GPS coordinates for you. Am I remembering that correctly ? I believe that got some journalists killed in Syria a few years ago ...

They mention in the talk that the satellite will periodically downlink both its location as well as where it thinks the particular spot beam you're using hits the earth.

So while at the very least I'm not sure you'd get GPS-quality data, if you monitored that data for awhile I'd think you could eventually get "good enough" accuracy.

Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#33

Post by technofiend »

jandrese wrote: post #20
iheartmemcache wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Iridium is basically only still in business because of US armed forces (and maybe diplomatic services? though not sure how much field work they do..) operational dependencies. Editorial retraction, mea culpa: Wrong about the TACSAT statement here. See parent below for the http://www.airspacemag.com/space/the-rise-and-fall-and-rise-... Post chapter-11 (2000), investors got the whole Iridium infrastructure at sub-penni…

INMARSAT is a different system entirely. Iridium uses a relatively massive constellation (77 birds, plus or minus) of Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites. Inmarsat runs a handful of Geosynchronous (GEO) satellites. Iridium has some advantages. It has coverage at the poles, where GEO sats typically do not. The mobile units can be small(ish) and handheld. But it also has some significant limitations. Datarates are in the…

>Motorola's whole business model with the original Iridium was pretty insane.

Agreed, their original use case made some assumptions that have proven false. It's too bad Motorola sold off Iridium (and for that matter Motorola Mobility) because now with Project Ara we're finally to the point of single device satellite and terrestrial convergence. I.E. You could presumably purchase or rent an Iridium expansion for your handset much like you can rent Iridium handsets today.

Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#34

Post by robszumski »

Can anyone share articles about how these satellites are _managed_ remotely by their administrators, and the security around those connections?

I know newer entrants like Planet Labs run normal Linux on their satellites, and I assume use a normal SSH connection. What do the older platforms use? How do they move the key material around to the different ground stations?

Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#35

Post by nxzero »

SEJeff wrote: post #28
nxzero wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SSSS is meaningless, never heard of anyone that had meaningful issues as a result of having this flag. What is SSSS? See the Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_Security_Screening...

Here is an anecdote for you. I was once held up at gunpoint on a business trip and my wallet was taken (gotta love Orlando, FL). I went to the airport 3 hours early with no identification and told them the situation. They still printed my boarding pass and put SSSS on it. I went to the huge long line and I went around it entirely and went into the secondary screening room. They did a full patdown and entirely emptied…

Thank you, this is exactly the same experience I've heard from others.

Anyone that I'm aware has had issues, knew they were permanently of the SSSS list, knew what would happen, ignored it, and had minor issues; in case it's not clear to others, you got a one-time SSSS for not having an ID.

Clearly, given anyone might have issue and I've seen it happen, ("I swear, I was joking, I will never say that again; [as passenger walks away with law enforcement].")

Any rate, while I agree neither with the SSSS or for that matter, it's been shown that TSA offers no real protection via their owe audits - an SSSS flag has no meaningful impact yo my knowledge.

Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#36

Post by tonyarkles »

robszumski wrote: post #34

Can anyone share articles about how these satellites are _managed_ remotely by their administrators, and the security around those connections? I know newer entrants like Planet Labs run normal Linux on their satellites, and I assume use a normal SSH connection. What do the older platforms use? How do they move the key material around to the different ground stations?

I'm really hoping that the specific name of the software package comes to mind. There's a super old ground terminal command & data handling (C&DH) package that is very very common. It runs on Linux, and has a UI that looks like it's written using Motif.

I haven't worked in the space industry for almost 10 years now, but that was everywhere when I was there. And I'm hoping that the name will come to mind over the next few hours and I can edit this post :)

Edit: Success! ITOS: http://itos.gsfc.nasa.gov/index.php

Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#37

Post by netsharc »

rsync wrote: post #23
noselasd wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. As with other satellite phones, security/encryption is an additional feature that you buy. For everyone else, there's no security/encryption - you just need to implement the system and protocols to tap into it - which is what has been done here. (And for the parts that have encryption, it's the data that's encrypted, while metadata (e.g. call setup) is still plain text)

Also ... correct me if I misremember ... but I think it is the case that with Iridium - encryption or no encryption - Eve can discern your physical location and get GPS coordinates for you. Am I remembering that correctly ? I believe that got some journalists killed in Syria a few years ago ...

I've also read about the Syrian bombs targeting Iridium users. Maybe they used triangulation to locate the source of the signal that was being broadcast from earth. Does/did the Syrian govt have that tech? Would they need satellites, or would helicopters be enough? And which government/supplier did they buy it from?

Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#38

Post by jandrese »

digi_owl wrote: post #26
jandrese wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

INMARSAT is a different system entirely. Iridium uses a relatively massive constellation (77 birds, plus or minus) of Low Earth Orbit (LEO) satellites. Inmarsat runs a handful of Geosynchronous (GEO) satellites. Iridium has some advantages. It has coverage at the poles, where GEO sats typically do not. The mobile units can be small(ish) and handheld. But it also has some significant limitations. Datarates are in the…

> Iridium has some advantages. It has coverage at the poles, where GEO sats typically do not. The mobile units can be small(ish) and handheld. But it also has some significant limitations. Datarates are in the 2400bps range. Latency goes all over the place due to the way the calls get routed through the constellation. Dropped calls are common. I seem to recall the south pole base use multiple iridium phones in a aggr…

One of the common solutions bonds together a bunch of channels to get you a nominally 128kbps datalink. You will pay through the nose if you use any significant portion of that bandwidth however (prices start at $13/mb, but can be brought down to as little as $1.27/mb if you purchase a full gigabyte up front each month).

http://www.satphonestore.com/tech-browsing/iridium-nav/iridi...

Note that this solution also removes one of the nominal advantages of Iridium. You can't hang it from your belt, the antenna weighs 11kg and is the size of a large punchbowl. It also requires a separate rack mounted modem.

How much would your browsing habits changed if loading an average webpage[1] cost you $31.80?

[1] http://httparchive.org/interesting.php

Re: Decoding Data from Iridium Satellites

#40

Post by mattkrause »

Apofis wrote: post #29
xvilka wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're already produced and will start soon launching Iridium NEXT [1] satellites, moreover developed a whole platform called Iridium Prime [2]. [1] https://www.iridium.com/network/iridiumnext [2] https://www.iridium.com/company/industryleadership/iridiumpr...

It would be pretty nice if they partnered up with someone like Verizon and offered service in places where there is no regular 2G/3G service, your phone would need to have a chip for it I suppose.

The Iridium phones are pretty big--think landline cordless phone handset--and often have an extensible antenna. Given the mania for thinner and thinner phones, this probably isn't going to fly.

The network access is also expensive--think $50+ per month, with a handful (literally, like...10) of text messages and voice minutes included, with ~$1 per extra minute/message. If you live and work in somewhere with a modicum of infrastructure, this also probably isn't worth it.

(FWIW: I think part of their initial pitch was to Important Executives who need to be in touch with the office 24/7, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside and it's increasingly targeted at people going/living/working in remote areas).

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