Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 85 posts

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#31

Post by epistasis »

talmand wrote: post #24
k26dr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with Exxon benefitting from a carbon tax. They have the political clout to push a bill like this through Congress, and it benefits the country as a whole to have carbon legislation in place. Seems like a win-win to me.

If a corporation, especially a multi-national, benefits from a tax, I would question the benefit to society from that tax. Not to say that society would not benefit, but it does make me wonder.

I think that it's a bad thing that "multi-national corporation" has become synonymous with "bad agent" or even "evil." Much of our society is multi-national corporations, so when we have a biased view of them we may end up cutting off our nose to spite our face.

And in popular culture, if we end up with people opposed to a carbon tax just because Exxon wants a carbon tax too, well it doesn't more nose-less than that.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#32

Post by IsaacL »

wildmusings wrote: post #14
IsaacL wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's not going to work, and they will be ran out of business through the political will of the people, just as the tobacco industry is now having done to it. Cool, and what's your proposal for an alternative energy source to power modern civilisation? https://www.scribd.com/document/320110894/Alex-Epstein-Moral...

How about nuclear power? It's the most viable energy source that we have. It doesn't emit carbon. It could power the world. Funny that the people who get labeled "climate deniers" are also the most pro-nuclear, while the loud environmentalists are the most anti-nuclear. I frankly don't give a damn what they believe or don't believe, if they're going to solve the problem anyway.

Yes, fossil fuels, nuclear or hydro are the 3 feasible options. Long-term, investing in safer nuclear power is the way forward.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#33

Post by stonogo »

epistasis wrote: post #31
talmand wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a corporation, especially a multi-national, benefits from a tax, I would question the benefit to society from that tax. Not to say that society would not benefit, but it does make me wonder.

I think that it's a bad thing that "multi-national corporation" has become synonymous with "bad agent" or even "evil." Much of our society is multi-national corporations, so when we have a biased view of them we may end up cutting off our nose to spite our face. And in popular culture, if we end up with people opposed to a carbon tax just because Exxon wants a carbon tax too, well it doesn't more nose-less than that.

> I think that it's a bad thing that "multi-national corporation" has become synonymous with "bad agent" or even "evil."

Until the aims of multinational corporations are aligned with the aims of society at large, they will continue to be considered untrustworthy.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#34

Post by kmkemp »

talmand wrote: post #24
k26dr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with Exxon benefitting from a carbon tax. They have the political clout to push a bill like this through Congress, and it benefits the country as a whole to have carbon legislation in place. Seems like a win-win to me.

If a corporation, especially a multi-national, benefits from a tax, I would question the benefit to society from that tax. Not to say that society would not benefit, but it does make me wonder.

There are typically competing multi-nationals that have market share to gain by diminishing their competitors, so you can assume that there will be lobbies on both sides for legislation that interferes with the free market.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#35

Post by ianai »

4ad wrote: post #29
ocschwar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Cool, and what's your proposal for an alternative energy source to power modern civilisation?" We have several alternatives. The only problem they have is that most of them are difficult to store in a self-contained moving vehicle that turns rubber wheels to move on flat blacktop. So, we increase reliance on vehicles that turn steel wheels on steel tracks, and get their power from overhead wires. Next question?

Most of the electrical energy comes from burning things that create carbon-dioxide as a side product. The only real alternative is fission, and the public opinion against nuclear is even worse than against oil. How do you solve this problem? Getting people and things moved by train is a great idea, but in the grand scheme of things we're dependant on oil for so many other things.

Recreate the nuclear industry.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#37

Post by stonogo »

chrisbennet wrote: post #19
fucking_tragedy wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're not cool if you smoke, and you're not cool if you don't drive a Tesla. PM has been trading for more in the last 5 months than it has in the last 8 years. Cool to who? Tesla ownership is a sign that you have money to spend but are not informed enough to purchase a vehicle that's worth the money. You might be cool in tech circles, but people that know cars will roll their eyes.

Car guy here: None of my car guy friends "roll there eyes" at Teslas. Myself and my "car guy" friends are all Porsche guys who all work on their own air cooled cars - we rebuild our own motors and transmissions, corner balance our cars for the track, etc. Then again, we probably aren't cool though. ;-)

Have any of your car guy friends driven a Tesla? They're some of the worst-handling cars on the market today. Quick 0-60 times land them in lots of headlines, but the second you have to turn the car, it's really frustrating.

My car friends fall into two camps: those who have never driven a Tesla, and those who have. The former group is optimistic and looks upon Tesla products with naked desire; the latter group has already dismissed the entire company as The Sharper Image of car sales.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#38

Post by nickff »

stonogo wrote: post #33
epistasis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it's a bad thing that "multi-national corporation" has become synonymous with "bad agent" or even "evil." Much of our society is multi-national corporations, so when we have a biased view of them we may end up cutting off our nose to spite our face. And in popular culture, if we end up with people opposed to a carbon tax just because Exxon wants a carbon tax too, well it doesn't more nose-less than that.

> I think that it's a bad thing that "multi-national corporation" has become synonymous with "bad agent" or even "evil." Until the aims of multinational corporations are aligned with the aims of society at large, they will continue to be considered untrustworthy.

Society doesn't have aims, people do. Your unstated assumption that you views represent everyone else's is incorrect, and I am sure that my aims are very different from yours.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#39

Post by RobertoG »

epistasis wrote: post #31
talmand wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a corporation, especially a multi-national, benefits from a tax, I would question the benefit to society from that tax. Not to say that society would not benefit, but it does make me wonder.

I think that it's a bad thing that "multi-national corporation" has become synonymous with "bad agent" or even "evil." Much of our society is multi-national corporations, so when we have a biased view of them we may end up cutting off our nose to spite our face. And in popular culture, if we end up with people opposed to a carbon tax just because Exxon wants a carbon tax too, well it doesn't more nose-less than that.

"Much of our society is multi-national corporations"

I have problems with that statement.

In my opinion, if we start forgetting we are a society of humans that, sometimes, use corporations as a tool for collaborating, we have serious problems.

So, everybody, repeat with me: we want to maximize humans welfare. Corporations are tools.

Re: A federal carbon tax is imminent in the USA, and Exxon is pushing it

#40

Post by rayiner »

talmand wrote: post #24
k26dr wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with Exxon benefitting from a carbon tax. They have the political clout to push a bill like this through Congress, and it benefits the country as a whole to have carbon legislation in place. Seems like a win-win to me.

If a corporation, especially a multi-national, benefits from a tax, I would question the benefit to society from that tax. Not to say that society would not benefit, but it does make me wonder.

That's pretty lazy reasoning. Tech companies spend a lot of time promoting STEM education. They benefit from the government teaching people those skills on the public dime. So do you reflexively question the benefit society gets from STEM education?
Post reply on HN