Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 57 posts

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#31

Post by robmcm »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #26
lathiat wrote: post #9

London bypassed this and you just tag on/off with your standard contactless payment card, it only bills you once a day at the end. Used it last week with Apple Pay on my Phone, worked great!

> Used it last week with Apple Pay on my Phone, worked great! Do be aware that if your phone battery runs out you may have to pay a penalty fare.

Also be aware that the hash for each ApplePay instance of the same card is unique, so you have to use the same device when tapping out that you did when tapping in (or all day in order to hit the cap).

It's also worth priming your device (double tap home button from lock screen) and authenticating before you reach the gate. You don't want to hold up the 50 stressed commuters behind you fiddling with your phone.

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#32

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

It's so disappointing that apple locks away the NFC chip. NFC payments are widespread in Europe but the fees are so low that Apple Pay needs to make special deals with banks and they don't care largely to share a tiny share with apple who does not add anything.

I would love if my bank just had a way to provide their own wallet solution on iOS but currently there is no way :(

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#33

Post by robmcm »

scurvy wrote: post #15

Why not just make an iPhone case that has a carve-out for the payment card? That way you can use your payment card and not need your phone, too (like going outdoors, to the beach, etc). I ask because I've already seen iPhone cases like this in Japan. I use one with my Clipper card.

The advantages of ApplePay are the authentication (security/privacy) and support for AppleWatch.

It's also trivial to cancel your virtual if your phone/watch is stolen, as it's just a unique hash. You can then continue to use your physical card, or re-register it.

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#35

Post by tjl »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #32

It's so disappointing that apple locks away the NFC chip. NFC payments are widespread in Europe but the fees are so low that Apple Pay needs to make special deals with banks and they don't care largely to share a tiny share with apple who does not add anything. I would love if my bank just had a way to provide their own wallet solution on iOS but currently there is no way :(

My best guess is that the NFC chip is locked for security and that it's highly linked to the secure enclave. Maybe it's discussed in the iOS Security document? I haven't checked.

Apple has a habit of introducing something very locked down and slowly adding features and opening up. We've been seeing this particularly in extensions recently and we've finally got some Siri support, if only in specific domains.

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#36

Post by c0g »

tjl wrote: post #35
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #32

It's so disappointing that apple locks away the NFC chip. NFC payments are widespread in Europe but the fees are so low that Apple Pay needs to make special deals with banks and they don't care largely to share a tiny share with apple who does not add anything. I would love if my bank just had a way to provide their own wallet solution on iOS but currently there is no way :(

My best guess is that the NFC chip is locked for security and that it's highly linked to the secure enclave. Maybe it's discussed in the iOS Security document? I haven't checked. Apple has a habit of introducing something very locked down and slowly adding features and opening up. We've been seeing this particularly in extensions recently and we've finally got some Siri support, if only in specific domains.

That's what apple claims[1]:

"Providing simple access to the NFC antenna by banking applications would fundamentally diminish the high level of security Apple aims to have on our devices"

[1] http://fortune.com/2016/08/11/apple-pay-tech-banks-security/

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#37

Post by the_mitsuhiko »

c0g wrote: post #36
tjl wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My best guess is that the NFC chip is locked for security and that it's highly linked to the secure enclave. Maybe it's discussed in the iOS Security document? I haven't checked. Apple has a habit of introducing something very locked down and slowly adding features and opening up. We've been seeing this particularly in extensions recently and we've finally got some Siri support, if only in specific domains.

That's what apple claims[1]: "Providing simple access to the NFC antenna by banking applications would fundamentally diminish the high level of security Apple aims to have on our devices" [1] http://fortune.com/2016/08/11/apple-pay-tech-banks-security/

I do not understand what the attack vector here would be. Can someone elaborate?

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#38

Post by semi-extrinsic »

robmcm wrote: post #31
fennecfoxen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Used it last week with Apple Pay on my Phone, worked great! Do be aware that if your phone battery runs out you may have to pay a penalty fare.

Also be aware that the hash for each ApplePay instance of the same card is unique, so you have to use the same device when tapping out that you did when tapping in (or all day in order to hit the cap). It's also worth priming your device (double tap home button from lock screen) and authenticating before you reach the gate. You don't want to hold up the 50 stressed commuters behind you fiddling with your phone.

So, realistically, what value does paying with your phone add over an Oyster or contactless card?

Sure, you might claim that I'm more likely to forget my Oyster than my phone, but I'm also much less likely to run out of power on the Oyster.

Re: Apple Plans iPhone for Japan With Tap-to-Pay for Subways

#40

Post by robjan »

nly wrote: post #27
fennecfoxen wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Used it last week with Apple Pay on my Phone, worked great! Do be aware that if your phone battery runs out you may have to pay a penalty fare.

If you use the underground in central london on a weekday there's a fair chance you'll be paying the maximum fare anyway

The penalty "maximum fare" doesn't count towards the fare cap so you will end up paying the maximum fare twice.
Post reply on HN