The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression • Hacker News Board

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#31

Post by johnward » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 5:31 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #20

marcosdumay wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees quit because they have a better place to go than their current job. (Or, at least, they think so.) If boss (really boss^n, for any n) makes them miserable, if just make more places relatively attractive. But there are always people quitting from good work places.

Yes and no. Most people, if they're pretty satisfied at their current job, won't seek out other opportunities, even if ones exist out there which would plausibly be incrementally better than their current job. And they'll tend to be more pessimistic about the qualities of other jobs. Sometimes, an undeniably amazing opportunity falls into the lap of someone who is overall quite happy at their present job, and they qu…

>Most people, if they're pretty satisfied at their current job, won't seek out other opportunities

Is that true? I don't know of any studies but I give a new company like a year before I start looking for something better. Now I've been in the same position for 6 years but I've been looking for something "better" the entire time and actually turned in my notice twice but ended up staying. No offense to any employer but they have never shown loyalty to me. I'm not giving it to them.

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#32

Post by johnward » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 5:35 PM UTC

HenryTheHorse wrote: post #21

Serious question: how would a psychiatrist distinguish "workplace depression" from your garden-variety depression that strikes people outside the workplace?

I've been to a psych and he has never actually suggested that my issues are caused by my work place but he has suggested I take short-term leave on several occasions. I have refused to do it thus far but that seem obvious that he thinks work is causing or increasing my issues.

I've also talked to a therapist's but in general have no other major causes of stress in my life. I make more than double the median income in my area, my family is all healthy and close, etc. Work seems to be a major cause of stress. I've tried to find another job but the interview process in tech is more stressful than the actual work. So many rejections just wear you out over time.

To your point I would say the only way they could really tell if it was job related would be talking to each person and ruling out other causes.

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#33

Post by marcosdumay » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

aetherson wrote: post #20

marcosdumay wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Employees quit because they have a better place to go than their current job. (Or, at least, they think so.) If boss (really boss^n, for any n) makes them miserable, if just make more places relatively attractive. But there are always people quitting from good work places.

Yes and no. Most people, if they're pretty satisfied at their current job, won't seek out other opportunities, even if ones exist out there which would plausibly be incrementally better than their current job. And they'll tend to be more pessimistic about the qualities of other jobs. Sometimes, an undeniably amazing opportunity falls into the lap of someone who is overall quite happy at their present job, and they qu…

Personally, all the jobs I quit were because of salary. None because of bosses or work conditions. (I've had bad bosses, fight them and saw they being let go. My satisfaction was indeed very dependent on them, but none become reasons for quitting.)

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#34

Post by johnward » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 5:43 PM UTC

pionar wrote: post #8

greenspot wrote: post #5

This is content which the typical bullied and vulnerable employee loves to read: 'Yes of course. It's my boss who drove me into depression.' Don't want to sound too cynical but a job is a job at the end of the day and life is more complex. Just blaming the boss for all the misery is a bit too easy. I expect to get downvoted because more people reading here have a boss than the other way round (I guess).

I'm both a boss and have a boss. I've seen from people who work for other bosses that yes, the biggest effect on employee happiness comes from their boss. There's no magic bullet; each employee is different. Sure, it's not always the boss, but a good boss does what they can to help improve that. There's two things a manager needs to do to be successful - achieve the goals you and the company have set for your team, a…

Having been through a handful of managers in the past few years I know that your direct manager can make a huge difference. My work itself doesn't change but my stress load is way less under my current manager. Just knowing that she has my back makes a world of difference.

For example I've never actually had any "career development" type discussion with a past manager. This manager makes sure we have those discussions and then actually tries to put me on project where I can learn skills to help me advance. On top of that I found out she actually gets reprimanded for having these meetings but she fights back saying that it's necessary, and it really is. We have huge turnover and her manager wants her to put less effort on employee satisfaction and career development.

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#35

Post by 20yrs_no_equity » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 6:07 PM UTC

In my experience this is a common problem in tech startups, often because "the boss" is a "business" guy who is imposing unfair things on engineering. For example, instead of following a lean startup or customer discovery method of determining the product, he is imposing feature-of-the-week management based on whatever random thing a "potential" customer wanted that week, and never changing the delivery date even though the spec (spec? No he just requests a feature, never integrates it with he product design) ... is constantly changing.

And this isn't a specific example, this is just something that has happened so often that it seems to be an epidemic.

I think Agile is partly to blame for this. Sure, changing direction every 2 weeks is ok, but you have to leave room for designing the new features, you can't just add them to the workload for the next sprint.

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#36

Post by InclinedPlane » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 6:25 PM UTC

greenspot wrote: post #5

This is content which the typical bullied and vulnerable employee loves to read: 'Yes of course. It's my boss who drove me into depression.' Don't want to sound too cynical but a job is a job at the end of the day and life is more complex. Just blaming the boss for all the misery is a bit too easy. I expect to get downvoted because more people reading here have a boss than the other way round (I guess).

Hey, it's just a comment thread on the internet. Isn't that super inconsequential to your life? Don't fret about the downvotes right?

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#37

Post by initram » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 7:55 PM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #33

aetherson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. Most people, if they're pretty satisfied at their current job, won't seek out other opportunities, even if ones exist out there which would plausibly be incrementally better than their current job. And they'll tend to be more pessimistic about the qualities of other jobs. Sometimes, an undeniably amazing opportunity falls into the lap of someone who is overall quite happy at their present job, and they qu…

Personally, all the jobs I quit were because of salary. None because of bosses or work conditions. (I've had bad bosses, fight them and saw they being let go. My satisfaction was indeed very dependent on them, but none become reasons for quitting.)

I quit my first job because I had other aspirations. I quit my next 2 jobs because of management. This article certainly feels true to my experiences.

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#38

Post by HenryTheHorse » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 9:05 PM UTC

johnward wrote: post #32

HenryTheHorse wrote: post #21

Serious question: how would a psychiatrist distinguish "workplace depression" from your garden-variety depression that strikes people outside the workplace?

I've been to a psych and he has never actually suggested that my issues are caused by my work place but he has suggested I take short-term leave on several occasions. I have refused to do it thus far but that seem obvious that he thinks work is causing or increasing my issues. I've also talked to a therapist's but in general have no other major causes of stress in my life. I make more than double the median income in…

Thank you. So what you are saying is, the psychs view the workplace issues as exacerbating factors.

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#39

Post by dvtv75 » Wed, Aug 10, 2016, 10:34 PM UTC

lormayna wrote: post #26

I had a problem of burnout in the past. My boss was an asshole, he lacked any planning or technical skills, he want impose his point of view without listen anyone opinions. He change assigned priority every seconds and want to take technical decisions without any knowledge. He was crusty when someone try to reply to him and explain a different point of view. He changed position during the time trying to earn merits a…

Lucky. My boss, who was very much like that, got a promotion in the owning organisation, and now has more power (and pay), and still runs our place into the ground.

Re: The boss, not the workload, causes workplace depression

#40

Post by 46Bit » Thu, Aug 11, 2016, 12:36 AM UTC

HenryTheHorse wrote: post #38

johnward wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been to a psych and he has never actually suggested that my issues are caused by my work place but he has suggested I take short-term leave on several occasions. I have refused to do it thus far but that seem obvious that he thinks work is causing or increasing my issues. I've also talked to a therapist's but in general have no other major causes of stress in my life. I make more than double the median income in…

Thank you. So what you are saying is, the psychs view the workplace issues as exacerbating factors.

An abusive work environment is akin to an abusive home environment. Given that at work you don't even have the option of standing your ground, it's at least as bad.