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How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

nytimes.com

31–40 of 145 posts

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#31
post #18

Is there some source that elites want "hyper-efficient global economy"? From what I see, there is a push towards bigger government spending and higher taxes. A lot of that actually decreases efficiency, to the point it suffocates some industries.

The American health care system seems to be way less efficient than the state run systems in Europe.

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#32
I'm a little amazed at the tone of this article.

People rent a home, and then exploit the democratic process in a beggar-thy-potential-neighbors strategy. They use things like rent control and other anti-migrant policies (e.g. anti-Google bus policies in SF, anti-Hijab laws in France) to enrich themselves at the expense of others.

Because her wealthy uncles lost their job, and had a small drop in their standard of living, "Andrea" wants to screw over a bunch of desperately poor people a world away.

Unlike "Andrea", our elites behave far better. Populists try to protect their favored ethnic groups - witness Shiv Sena trying to pass laws preventing non-Marathis from driving taxis, or "tech bros" entering SF. In contrast, I've never heard a white banker complaining about allowing a Marathi to be the CEO of Citi. Elite institutions - think of banking or tech - tend to be truly global enterprises, open to anyone who can demonstrate the requisite ability.

Somehow the author doesn't draw the obvious conclusion: that our elites are honest, moral and principled individuals, while our masses are selfish, tribal and greedy people out to beggar their neighbors. For good policy making the conclusion is that we should try and increase the power of the elite.

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#33
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it depends where you live. In my part of the UK people were overwhelmingly in favour of leave. I wouldn't typically mention I was a remain voter as it was near sure to get me a discussion. Very few claimed the immigration directly - t'was about jobs, or more precisely the lack of them, therefore immigration. A good part of the region is not yet out of the 2008 recession, and house price growth is a joke. When…

You can look more recently than that, the failed austerity experiment contributed to these conditions

Both really.

For places like Middlesborough or Burnley they're a shadow of their former 80s selves. Austerity there is just a case of rubbing salt into the still open wound.

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#34

Quote from OA "Voters in large numbers have been rejecting much of the underlying logic behind a dynamic globalized economy that on paper seems to make the world much richer." In the UK, we don't actually know why 17+ million chose to tick the leave box. My conversations with a handful of people who did vote leave suggest a range of reasons from immigration, through to 'loss of control'. Macroeconomic policy does not…

Of the 5 people I know who were pro Brexit:

- One blamed being a evacuated kid in WW2

- Two said it was a "protest" vote - and admitted that they didn't want to actually leave the EU

- Two said it was because they felt that immigrants made their search for jobs more difficult

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#35

Quote from OA "Voters in large numbers have been rejecting much of the underlying logic behind a dynamic globalized economy that on paper seems to make the world much richer." In the UK, we don't actually know why 17+ million chose to tick the leave box. My conversations with a handful of people who did vote leave suggest a range of reasons from immigration, through to 'loss of control'. Macroeconomic policy does not…

I guess it depends where you live. In my part of the UK people were overwhelmingly in favour of leave. I wouldn't typically mention I was a remain voter as it was near sure to get me a discussion. Very few claimed the immigration directly - t'was about jobs, or more precisely the lack of them, therefore immigration. A good part of the region is not yet out of the 2008 recession, and house price growth is a joke. When…

I am not sure what I am saying, but I believe that a lot of the people voting, do not have the intelligence to vote.

I met a couple of neds in Spain recently on the day of the vote, and they were like "Take it back, init, take it back and be great".

I was like "What does that mean though??? Take back what??". "Take it back! We just need to run ourselves".

Despite almost an hours worth of discussion, they were passionate about something which was nothing of value. I would probably put a lot of money on 20% of the vote being people who pick up a newspaper, and copy what the editor says.

This "lets be great again" rubbish was the common theme.

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#36
The issue he's talking about here is financialisation of the economy. It's an economy that's efficient at delivering large profits for an increasingly concentrated number of businesses and people.

Jobless recoveries, debt deflation, etc.

The answer of course is a reversal of the trend of neoliberalism over the past 40 years, to re-regulate banking and finance, increase government spending and return to full employment as a policy priority.

This is all achievable through understanding Modern Monetary Theory. If anyone is interested in finding out more check out this Facebook group[1].

If anyone in Australia is interested I'm also starting a political party based on these principles.[2]

[1] https://www.facebook.com/groups/introductiontommt/

[2] http://www.australianemploymentparty.org/

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#37
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. The average citizen doesn't see much of the benefits of globalization. It mostly helps governments and companies.

Tell that to my cheap phone made in China running an OS made by developers from around the world. My Turkish t-shirt, the Spanish tomatoes I ate this morning or the server I'm remotely setting up on the other side of the planet, so my company can sell their services there.

Are you in the lower/working class of your country? If not, then you're not necessarily amongst those that the system works against.

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming a global money laundering hub like London is a wet dream of every major city on this planet. Plus, as the commenter below mentions, London mostly voted remain.

It may be the dream of owners of property in London but not those that rent there.

Well, keep in mind that for every million processed via, say, Credit Suisse in London, several thousand land up in Accenture (or other IT firm), several go to Deloitte (or other consultancy), some more go to Linklaters (or other law firm). Their employees get their salaries that allow then to support their families and then go drink coffee at Nero and eat sandwiches at Pret. Everyone in this chain -- from Credit Suisse via Accenture to Nero are employing people, growing and paying wages.

Now you can go "those high-earning landlord scum" as much as you want, but nobody in their right mind would say that it's better to have a situation in, say, small towns in the Northeastern England where rent is spectacularly low — but so is employment.

Re: How a Quest by Elites Is Driving ‘Brexit’ and Trump

#40
post #9

Quote from OA "Voters in large numbers have been rejecting much of the underlying logic behind a dynamic globalized economy that on paper seems to make the world much richer." In the UK, we don't actually know why 17+ million chose to tick the leave box. My conversations with a handful of people who did vote leave suggest a range of reasons from immigration, through to 'loss of control'. Macroeconomic policy does not…

Do you think millenials being priced out of London as it became a global money laundering hub had anything to do with it? That's what I hear from my friends there.

We're being priced out of everywhere. Paying over the odds for a crappy semi that the boomers hoarded for profit surrounded by leave voters outside of London isn't appealing either.

EU was pretty much our lifeline that we could move to somewhere much nicer and affordable in Europe once our careers have been established.

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