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Coup attempt underway in Turkey

theatlantic.com

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Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#31

Post by BukhariH »

scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

I wouldn't be so sure about Erdogan losing power.

Erdogan has an extreme amount of support within the country not just from the people but from the Turkish intelligence services & military aswell. A lot of people have elevated him to the same level as Ataturk.

I'm about 80% sure Erdogan will manage to retain power from just what I know about Turkish politics - which isn't a lot to be honest.

Early days right now but seems like the coup forces have advantage but that's largely because a lot of the soldiers don't realize that it's not the Generals who approved this but rather some lower level colonels.

Once, the soldiers find out they're defying the generals then they'll likely back down and Erdogan will retain power.

But once again - very early days.

EDIT: Grammar - I typed the comment way too fast.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#32

Post by davars »

tuna-piano wrote: post #18

Does anyone have an explanation, or a link to an explanation for all the happenings in Turkey? I'm an occasional follower of this kind of stuff, but it would be great to understand the full situation in Turkey in an easily digestible way. 1. The current coup 2. The president's history 3. The different terrorist groups operating within the country and their beliefs and goals 4. Turkey's legal system and freedoms allow…

Printed last Tuesday: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/world/europe/recep-tayy...

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#33

Post by nostrademons »

whack wrote: post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

The U.S. separation of power is based on similar ideas. Congress makes laws on a day-by-day basis, but when the will of the people contradicts certain fundamental principles enshrined in the Constitution, the courts have a right to strike down and nullify laws.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#34

Post by enraged_camel »

BukhariH wrote: post #31
scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

I wouldn't be so sure about Erdogan losing power. Erdogan has an extreme amount of support within the country not just from the people but from the Turkish intelligence services & military aswell. A lot of people have elevated him to the same level as Ataturk. I'm about 80% sure Erdogan will manage to retain power from just what I know about Turkish politics - which isn't a lot to be honest. Early days right now but…

The majority of people who support Erdogan are simply opportunists. They don't actually care about him. He has managed to maintain power and influence mostly by bullying and bribing people and illegally detaining or otherwise silencing those who speak against him. We're about to see just how resilient his house of cards is.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#35

Post by makomk »

zygomega wrote: post #28
scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

He's sending them out to die perhaps, in his name. Is he out there? Not a nice move.

He's apparently cut off the state TV channel that was taken over by the military and was announcing a curfew too. Sending people out to perhaps die indeed.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#36

Post by padmanabhan01 »

tdaltonc wrote: post #13
whack wrote: post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

But how do you make sure that the military has the right "fundamental principles"?

The same way you make sure democracy or the majority has the right "fundamental principles"..

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#37

Post by watermelon59 »

BukhariH wrote: post #31
scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

I wouldn't be so sure about Erdogan losing power. Erdogan has an extreme amount of support within the country not just from the people but from the Turkish intelligence services & military aswell. A lot of people have elevated him to the same level as Ataturk. I'm about 80% sure Erdogan will manage to retain power from just what I know about Turkish politics - which isn't a lot to be honest. Early days right now but…

Tangential, but why do people support Erdogan? From what I hear he's a terrible leader and moving towards a full dictatorship.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#38

Post by frankquist »

scarmig wrote: post #15

Anyone have a take on how successful this is likely to be? Both sides are claiming victory and that they've beaten the other side, naturally. Propaganda is everywhere. The only thing I figure is that since Erdogan is calling for a mass uprising in the streets, the status quo has him losing. He needs to radically change the dynamics of the situation to stay in power, and mass protests and displays of martyrdom in the…

This assumes Erdogan is rational or that he would be quite concerned with the lives of those going outside (something which could be true, but his dealings with earlier uprisings give me doubt). Mass protests against the coup (even if Erdogan is on the winning hand) could solidify his support and give a signal to the military that future coups might not be succesful.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#39

Post by beachstartup »

tdaltonc wrote: post #13
whack wrote: post #10

"Modern Turkey was founded by Mustafa Kemal, a general in the Turkish Army who was later formally granted the surname “Ataturk,” or father of the Turks. Ataturk set about an aggressive program of modernizing and “Westernizing” the country, pushing religion to the margins, banning certain apparel like headscarves and fezes, and converting Turkish from Arabic to Latin script. But that secularism has always remained ten…

But how do you make sure that the military has the right "fundamental principles"?

well, it's a government, so it basically just works until it doesn't. then you get a revolution. and a new government, that works until it doesn't.

nothing is guaranteed. it's just humans.

Re: Coup attempt underway in Turkey

#40

Post by rimantas »

zygomega wrote: post #22
tuna-piano wrote: post #18

Does anyone have an explanation, or a link to an explanation for all the happenings in Turkey? I'm an occasional follower of this kind of stuff, but it would be great to understand the full situation in Turkey in an easily digestible way. 1. The current coup 2. The president's history 3. The different terrorist groups operating within the country and their beliefs and goals 4. Turkey's legal system and freedoms allow…

The army is secular. Every 20 years they remove some dictator or zealot that the system seems to throw up regularly. I'm not sure if there's been a split in the armed forces before, but the police always cop a hammering.

More like ten: 1960, 1970, 1981, 1993, 1997, 2007 — threat of the coup. I hope I got years right.
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