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A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

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Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#31

Post by URSpider94 »

As a loyal NPR supporter, I feel that I have to correct the complete mis-representation of NPR's funding presented in this article.

It is true that NPR received a generous gift from the Kroc family ($200 million in 2003, http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6973-2003Nov6?lang...). However, in that same year, NPR's operating budget was $100 million. Assuming a generous 5% utilization of that endowment, that would only pay 10% of the budget.

In fact, NPR's web page states that it receives a little under 10% of its annual budget from "major gifts," while nearly a third (the largest single fraction) comes from pledges and annual memberships. (see http://www.npr.org/about/privatesupport.html)

I guess your statement that listener donations are "a fraction" of NPR's operating budget is true. One third IS a fraction, after all. But to say that NPR "really doesn't need your money" is a gross factual error.

I, for one, would like to see you post a correction.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#32

Post by smanek »

almost wrote: post #26

"Makes the donation essentially cost free to the donor via tax deduction." You what now? Either the US tax system works in some very weird way or that doesn't make any sense.

Pretend I donate a hundred dollars to NPR. I get a tote, mug, and some other stuff that I might value (i.e., otherwise purchase) at $50, but is nominally valued at $10.

I then get to deduct $90 from income on my tax return, and assuming I'm in a high tax bracket, I get to pay about $30 less in taxes.

Hence, I effectively donated $20 - while the recipient effectively received $90.

Not quite cost free, but not terrible. And yes, I know it's cheating to deduct the 'value' of the gifts - but it's the only semi-reasonable thing I can think of.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#33

Post by timwiseman »

gnosis wrote: post #16
zackattack wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With #1 the point is that although tons of people use Wikipedia, only a microfraction of em donate. I, for example, have gotten tons of value out of it yet have never given them anything. I think that they should petition universities for sponsorships. I just donated $5 because I realized how ridiculous my lack of patronage is.

Monetary donations are only one way of helping a site like Wikipedia. Another valuable (even critical) form of help is editing, voting, and otherwise participating on the site. I've donated a ton of my time to improving Wikipedia, so don't feel the least bit of guilt about not giving them money. If anything, they should be paying me!

People like you that spend substantial time editing perhaps should feel no guilt about not giving them money. People like me who read extensively but only very occasionally make small additions should probably at think about a donation when funds are available.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#34

Post by timwiseman »

The moment you put the donate button on your website you’re calling yourself a charity case.

This line caught me. Yes, if you put a donate button you are drawing a parallel between yourself and a charity case if not outright calling yourself one.

But if you put a tip button on it is a very different situation. That is more comparing yourself to say a skilled hairdresser (it comes to mind since my step mother is one) where the end user is thanking you monetarily for the good work that you have done and expecting it to encourage you to keep doing good work in the future.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#35

Post by andrewmayne »

URSpider94 wrote: post #31

As a loyal NPR supporter, I feel that I have to correct the complete mis-representation of NPR's funding presented in this article. It is true that NPR received a generous gift from the Kroc family ($200 million in 2003, http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6973-2003Nov6?lang... ). However, in that same year, NPR's operating budget was $100 million. Assuming a generous 5% utilization of that endowment, that woul…

You're right in that the Kroc grant doesn't cover them forever. That wasn't my point.

I think NPR is a very well run organization. When they received the Kroc grant they used it to expand and increased their annual budget by 20%.

Coming from the non-profit world, this is a sign of an efficient organization that is very good at raising money. When given a giant bequest, they increased their budget.

We could debate what "need" means, but a non-profit that can increase its expenditures by 20% in one year and easily cover it doesn't "need" money in the same way other charitable organizations I've worked with do.

FYI: The page you link to lists the average for all public radio stations in general. It's not a specific breakdown of NPR or NPR member stations.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#36

Post by andrewmayne »

DenisM wrote: post #30
andrewmayne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all seriousness, what does "tax deductible" mean to you?

You're making things up at this point. I suggest you revisit how you arrive at conclusions and what constitutes evidence - you're hurting yourself by not being able to tell correct from desired.

When can I meet your polite alias?

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#37

Post by andrewmayne »

timwiseman wrote: post #34

The moment you put the donate button on your website you’re calling yourself a charity case. This line caught me. Yes, if you put a donate button you are drawing a parallel between yourself and a charity case if not outright calling yourself one. But if you put a tip button on it is a very different situation. That is more comparing yourself to say a skilled hairdresser (it comes to mind since my step mother is one)…

I hear you, but we all have a pretty good idea how to compensate hair dressers and waiters. We also agree that there's an implicit contract that tipping is part of the transaction.

When was the last time you tipped the producers of your favorite television show?

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#38

Post by jrockway »

derefr wrote: post #12
zackattack wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With #1 the point is that although tons of people use Wikipedia, only a microfraction of em donate. I, for example, have gotten tons of value out of it yet have never given them anything. I think that they should petition universities for sponsorships. I just donated $5 because I realized how ridiculous my lack of patronage is.

Don't feel bad about not giving them money—they need to be free to read to sustain the level of net-positive impulse-edits they get (similar to how chewing gum needs to be at the checkouts of grocery stores to sustain its level of purchase.) Encouraging Wikipedia's free use, as a side-effect, makes more people likely to edit it, and thus makes it more valuable.

chewing gum needs to be at the checkouts of grocery stores to sustain its level of purchase

I don't chew gum anymore, but when I did, I always got it from the chewing gum aisle. It's cheaper there. I'm sure I'm not the only one who figured this out.

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#39

Post by jrockway »

I'm pretty sure that people tip at, say, coffee shops because they don't want to put the change back into their pocket. When people buy coffee with credit cards, they don't tip. When they buy with cash, they tip with whatever coins are left over.

(I was told once that this was rude, so I just stopped tipping for coffee all together. If I'm going to be rude, I might as well keep the money for myself.)

Re: A jar full of fail: Why tipping and donations don't work on the Internet

#40

Post by FluidDjango »

Devilboy wrote: post #19

I still hope that http://flattr.com can prove otherwise

Maybe I'm just slow, but this is the first I've seen of Flattr. Model is quite intriguing, but the question is how to get enough awareness/visibility to both "donor" users and "recipient" users. Anybody knoow long have they been out there or what sort of adoption curve they're experiencing?
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