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No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

theguardian.com

31–40 of 254 posts

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#31
post #14

We school-educated people associate learning with authority and it's hard for us to truly grasp that education takes place most efficiently under conditions of freedom. Repealing Hitler's 1938 law against home education would be an important step for Germany.

IDK. The toughest calls for home-schooling in Germany come from religious extremists, be it Islamists, Jewish orthodox or Twelve Tribes christian fundamentalists. None of those are anti-authority to begin with. Also: Godwin.

> Also: Godwin.

Godwin's law only comes in when something has been compared to Hitler, this person stated a fact: That the law in question was brought in by Hitler.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#32
Education is extremely political. It's not that we can't come up with better ways of occupying school-age children. Montessori has been around since the early 1900s!

The problem is convincing everyone they need to adopt a new method. Which is absolutely completely politically impossible compared to making small tweaks to the system already present.

Nobody is going to turn education upside down. Ever.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#33
post #13

My partner became involved in Montessori a few years ago, and I've been really impressed with how it works. If you don't know much about Montessori, here is my "in a nutshell" version: It's a method of schooling usually associated with preschool and elementary education. There are mixed age groups (e.g. 3 to 6) in classrooms. There is at least one adult who gives one-on-one lessons on how to work with "materials." Th…

I went to a Montessori Kindergarten as a child. I think it was good, but I do not remember much anymore. I remember all the toys and other things that taught me reading, counting, fine motor skills etc.

If you think it was good, it probably was - all I remember about traditional kindergarten was hating it.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#34
> Year after year, Rasfeld’s institution ends up with the best grades among Berlin’s gesamtschulen, or comprehensive schools, ...

So there are still grades, or at least someone is still testing the kids. This isn't utopia yet.

>> each school day starts with worship.

Sorry. Game over imho. I am not so put off by the specifics of the religion, but by its presence muddying the academic waters. A school religion means a distinct value system, and associated enforcement mechanisms, over and above what is available at standard public schools. That means the academic achievements of this school may not be applicable as the school's faith may be playing a large role in student motivation.

I once read a paper on whether Hogwarts was a faith school. The theory went that faith schools are characterized by the fact that teachers double as faith leaders, as teachers of morality and dogma, something that does occur at Hogwarts. This motivates students in a manner not available where there isn't religious commonality between students and teachers. The problem is that the scheme breaks down once the kids realize their teachers are but human, flawed and sinful as anyone else. Let's call that the Krabappel effect. Then the religion becomes a reason to distrust teachers, to break ranks even work against them ... like at hogwarts.

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As I am not allowed to reply (thanks for that btw) I'll edit in my reply here.

My comment above is not to whether religion is a good/bad thing, but to the fact that the presence of religion at this school makes it less likely that its results can be replicated at other schools with either different or no religion present.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#35
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation needed? I'm just describing the Montessori method, which was developed in the early 1900s. But maybe they were driving "sales revenue" then also?

"In the real world, children are enticed by non-new and broken things just fine... until their parents, competitive peers, TV, or lovers insist they be more materialistic and wealthy signalling." Tamana is describing a behavior known to anyone who have ever watched children play or explore the world. They start out interested in all kinds of stuff regardless if it's shiny or in perfect condition. Later, after much cu…

Do you have kids? My toddler won't even eat a cookie that has a corner broken off.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading that when you compare the development of a child that went to a regular school vs. Montessori the results are the same.

That's quite surprising, given how different the methods are. What about a control group that received no schooling?

Why?

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember reading that when you compare the development of a child that went to a regular school vs. Montessori the results are the same.

That's quite surprising, given how different the methods are. What about a control group that received no schooling?

Unschooler here. I am the only unschooler from my 12 person cohort of hippie parents who did not go to University. And I am doing okay. So I think school basically has no effect. Mostly just daycare. It is good at that, though.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#38
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the real world, children are enticed by non-new and broken things just fine... until their parents, competitive peers, TV, or lovers insist they be more materialistic and wealthy signalling." Tamana is describing a behavior known to anyone who have ever watched children play or explore the world. They start out interested in all kinds of stuff regardless if it's shiny or in perfect condition. Later, after much cu…

Do you have kids? My toddler won't even eat a cookie that has a corner broken off.

I help raise many of them. They're picky on some things but not on others. Keeping them from grabbing and playing with stuff or going into random places is work. All of them, despite many dissimilar bloodlines, seem to have in common the willingness to explore something once motivated. It doesn't need to look perfect to motivate them although certain things seem to evoke a negative reaction. Greens on a plate or scary-looking insects come to mind. Exposure reduces this.

You can use aesthetics as a motivator for children. However, it being mandatory for anything they benefit from could make them very superficial. Show them something shiny they'll enjoy. Also, show them a worn-out book that has something they'll enjoy or learn from. Do both. Get them to focus on what something is rather than just appears to be.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#39
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's quite surprising, given how different the methods are. What about a control group that received no schooling?

Unschooler here. I am the only unschooler from my 12 person cohort of hippie parents who did not go to University. And I am doing okay. So I think school basically has no effect. Mostly just daycare. It is good at that, though.

How would you know what you don't know, though? Or what you never experienced or could have experienced?

Genuine question, just curious how anyone firmly on the "schooler" or "unschooler" side of the fence can know without some kind of external reference, particularly one which they themselves didn't choose in case of bias.

Re: No grades, no timetable: Berlin school turns teaching upside down

#40

Education is extremely political. It's not that we can't come up with better ways of occupying school-age children. Montessori has been around since the early 1900s! The problem is convincing everyone they need to adopt a new method. Which is absolutely completely politically impossible compared to making small tweaks to the system already present. Nobody is going to turn education upside down. Ever.

That is very true. I wish there were more possibilities for experimental school programs in my country (either private or public). The problem is that many people have an idea about how ALL schools should work, and they try to push a change for ALL schools. Evolution of schooling would be easier if there was more variation of schooling methods and some type of 'natural' societal selection.
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