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In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

nytimes.com

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Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#31

Post by ars »

josephlord wrote: post #24
endianswap wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it's pretty straightforward to pair a loan like this with life insurance (which is not only cheap for someone of college age but also generally requires no medical exam).

Then it would also be pretty cheap for the lender to insure against borrower's death or to bear the low (amortised) cost. There is no reason a guarantor couldn't be responsible only for wilful failure to pay but not for after death. I'm not saying these things apply in the agreement under discussion or under the relevant laws but just that different structures are possible.

> Then it would also be pretty cheap for the lender to insure against borrower's death

It would. It would be so cheap for them that they might as well just cut out the middleman and self insure.

AKA just forgive the debt and that's all. Which apparently everyone else does, except NJ.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#32

Post by toodlebunions »

rayiner wrote: post #29
toodlebunions wrote: post #28

Student loans are an impending financial disaster. Over a trillion in loans outstanding not, most of which have provided no benefit and serve little more than as the modern equivalent to a high school diploma. The debt burden follows students through life and impedes home ownership, children, and other middle class consumptive activities, and as a result the demand driven economy muddles along. What is the solution?…

> What is the solution? Forgive all loans after paying 10% of salary for 10 years? I don't know, but something needs to change. No that would just inflate the education bubble even more. You need to figure out how to reduce the demand for all this useless higher education.

So, trade schools? Reintroducing shop class and welding into high schools? An optional 2 year program similar to national guard, but for domestic efforts?

I'm in favor of affordable higher education for those who want it, either way.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#33

Post by themartorana »

pkaye wrote: post #22
themartorana wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that was silly. This is still relevant, though: "Most significant, New Jersey’s loans come with a cudgel that even the most predatory for-profit players cannot wield: the power of the state. New Jersey can garnish wages, rescind state income tax refunds, revoke professional licenses, even take away lottery winnings — all without having to get court approval."

What happens if they move to a different state?

That's actually a great question...

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#34

Post by virmundi »

trhway wrote: post #26
jerf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which case the "bare minimum" signaling will just move up to the next level, and then graduate degrees will be required. At which point post-graduate will be required. You can't signal that you're above average if everybody comes up to the same "above average" at the same time. This isn't even hypothetical, there are already industries where this is how it works. A 4-year-degree in teaching or social work just get…

>In which case the "bare minimum" signaling will just move up to the next level, and then graduate degrees will be required. At which point post-graduate will be required. definitely. In the future where all "simple" jobs are automated the basic necessary skill level would be an ability to do research, ie. the post-graduate level. Without it, one would be able only to enjoy the life provided by the automated systems…

Nope, social work is not just government jobs. My wife is a social worker at a hospice (not government). She had to have her masters to get the job. The next thing she has to get is a clinical license. Fun fact, that's a paying internship. She pays a mentor for 2 years to watch her do her job. After the monitoring, my wife is eligible to take a test. If she passes that test, she gets the license. That licenses enables her to increase her odds of getting a social work job in a hospital or government job like the VA, which is not just hospitals.

When all of this is said and done, she had her undergrad (fortunately paid for by her mother's employer, the school), which cost about 100k. Then we paid for her 30k masters. Now we'll pay 2-4k depending on the license mentor. So 132k for a job that pays...wait for it... at best 60k a year! Compare this to my BS in CS which opened at 42k and now is somewhere around 120k. Yay idiotic higher ed inflation.

As an interesting side note, most of this stupidity is caused by the social workers themselves. Like Rodney Dangerfield, they felt like they got no respect from the doctors, legislators and nurses. So they actually pushed for laws around mandated education! They pushed for licenses. They pushed for licenses that could only be obtained with job experience! You couldn't get experience to get the license to get the job that would get you the experience! We actually fled Indiana because of it. Florida is more reasonable.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#35

Post by pkaye »

toodlebunions wrote: post #28

Student loans are an impending financial disaster. Over a trillion in loans outstanding not, most of which have provided no benefit and serve little more than as the modern equivalent to a high school diploma. The debt burden follows students through life and impedes home ownership, children, and other middle class consumptive activities, and as a result the demand driven economy muddles along. What is the solution?…

Imagine if we did something like that for home loans what would happen?

In reality, a student loan amount should not be given more than some percent of 10 year salary estimate for that enrolled major. That obviously means some professions like teachers or social workers may have difficulty in affording an education. In those cases they should be supported through grants.

Atleast we need some feedback loop to keep education costs under control otherwise schools will keep raising the costs.

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#36

Post by brianwawok »

pkaye wrote: post #35
toodlebunions wrote: post #28

Student loans are an impending financial disaster. Over a trillion in loans outstanding not, most of which have provided no benefit and serve little more than as the modern equivalent to a high school diploma. The debt burden follows students through life and impedes home ownership, children, and other middle class consumptive activities, and as a result the demand driven economy muddles along. What is the solution?…

Imagine if we did something like that for home loans what would happen? In reality, a student loan amount should not be given more than some percent of 10 year salary estimate for that enrolled major. That obviously means some professions like teachers or social workers may have difficulty in affording an education. In those cases they should be supported through grants. Atleast we need some feedback loop to keep edu…

Yes this. Why can a history major and a programmer take out the same dollars in loans? Obviously the market isn't self regulating...

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#37

Post by douche »

toodlebunions wrote: post #32
rayiner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the solution? Forgive all loans after paying 10% of salary for 10 years? I don't know, but something needs to change. No that would just inflate the education bubble even more. You need to figure out how to reduce the demand for all this useless higher education.

So, trade schools? Reintroducing shop class and welding into high schools? An optional 2 year program similar to national guard, but for domestic efforts? I'm in favor of affordable higher education for those who want it, either way.

Any and all of those options sounds like a good idea

Re: In New Jersey Student Loan Program, Even Death May Not Bring a Reprieve

#38

Post by jbooth »

rayiner wrote: post #4
pkaye wrote: post #2

"Ms. DeOliveira-Longinetti, who co-signed on the loans, was shocked and confused." Be careful when co-signing any loan.

The article calls this abusive loan-sharking at the behest of the state's evil Goldman Sachs overlords. But the woman co-signed her son's loan. What did she think that meant?

Student loans aren't dischargable in most forms of bankruptcy, why's a cosign necessary?
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