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Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

theverge.com

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Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#31

> In the blog post, Tesla reiterates that customers are required to agree that the system is in a "public beta phase" before they can use it I absolutely disagree with this, and it should not be used as a 'get out' clause from Tesla. If you work with non-technical people on technical issues on a day to day basis you'll understand why - non-technical people literally don't understand what stuff like this means. They'l…

Beware clickbait and intentional inflammatory posturing. I noticed The Verge selectively quoted Tesla without directly linking to the source (although it was part of Elon's tweet):

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss

The full context of the agreement:

"It is important to note that Tesla disables Autopilot by default and requires explicit acknowledgement that the system is new technology and still in a public beta phase before it can be enabled. When drivers activate Autopilot, the acknowledgment box explains, among other things, that Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times," and that "you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle” while using it. Additionally, every time that Autopilot is engaged, the car reminds the driver to “Always keep your hands on the wheel. Be prepared to take over at any time.” The system also makes frequent checks to ensure that the driver's hands remain on the wheel and provides visual and audible alerts if hands-on is not detected. It then gradually slows down the car until hands-on is detected again."

So the key here is that Tesla autopilot is a driver assist but is positioned such that the driver needs to remain alert and able to assume control of the vehicle at any moment. So when it is said, "Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed..." it is critical to note that ultimately the driver failed to control their vehicle. Personally, I find this reasonable.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#32
A company's "public beta phase" system named "Autopilot" just drove a customer head-first into a trailer and killed them, at least in part due to inadequate sensor hardware that seems unlikely a software update can remedy. Tesla really ought to take a step back and consider the damage they may do to their brand if they start killing customers and blaming the dead person for having trusted a Tesla product.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#33

Tesla's statement[1] provides some more details > What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Failing to detect the white side of a tractor against a brightly lit sky i…

This is going to be a major morality issue with self driving cars.

What if a deer crosses the road? Will the car hit the deer to save the life of the driver? Avoid the deer to avoid an accident? Or save the deer and run into the ditch, possibly harming the driver?

Unfortunately, this technology is not capable of making those decisions and if ultimately the driver is responsible, then maybe we should just keep it that way then.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#34

"This is the first known fatality in just over 130 million miles where Autopilot was activated," states a post on Tesla's corporate website. "Among all vehicles in the U.S., there is a fatality every 94 million miles. Worldwide, there is a fatality approximately every 60 million miles. It is important to emphasize that the NHTSA action is simply a preliminary evaluation to determine whether the system worked accordin…

From what I understand, the autopilot can only be used on highways. I would suspect that highway travel is much safer per mile in the first place. Are we comparing highway driving with autopilot to regular mixed city/highway driving?

Highway accidents are more likely to be fatal, though. Since we are talking about fatalities and not just accidents, this is definitely a factor.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#35

Tesla's statement[1] provides some more details > What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Failing to detect the white side of a tractor against a brightly lit sky i…

There was some discussion, but Tesla has a forward facing radar, but it is mounted lower than the camera and trailers of certain height have been shown to avoid it's detection window.

So, speculatively, it is a double failure:

1) Trailer was high enough to avoid radar

2) Trailer was light enough/low contrast to avoid detection by the camera

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#36

Tesla's statement[1] provides some more details > What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Failing to detect the white side of a tractor against a brightly lit sky i…

How does Tesla know the driver didn't see the trailer? He was killed in the crash. Is there a cockpit voice recorder?

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#38

Tesla's statement[1] provides some more details > What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Failing to detect the white side of a tractor against a brightly lit sky i…

I think the problem might have been that the middle of the trailer is not at ground level but at some hight where the lidar data is ignored or not there.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#39

Tesla's statement[1] provides some more details > What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Failing to detect the white side of a tractor against a brightly lit sky i…

How does Tesla know the driver didn't see the trailer? He was killed in the crash. Is there a cockpit voice recorder?

Presumably because the brakes weren't engaged.

Re: Tesla driver killed in crash with Autopilot active, NHTSA investigating

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any concession means that the driver somehow isn't ultimately responsible, which is a situation noone wants to end up in. It's also ridiculous.

Both Mercedes and Volvo have publicly stated they are taking full responsibility for any accidents which occur during use of their semi-autonomous systems. Tesla needs to step up, or it will hurt their public image.

That's probably very easy to say before you have a product on the market. Let's see if they change their tune afterwards.

I also wonder if that would encourage more risky behaviour from users or less.

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