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A Tragic Loss

teslamotors.com

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Re: A Tragic Loss

#31

Post by krschultz »

simonsarris wrote: post #2

> What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Tragic no doubt, but I'm relieved that this was not a "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story. Autopilot has the p…

I'll give you that it's not a story of Autopilot driving off a cliff, but it may be a case of someone getting killed due to a problem with Autopilot. While it's factually true that the driver did not notice, what we can't know is if the driver would have noticed if they were more aware without autopilot engaged. Anyone that thinks drivers pay as much attention to the road when Autopilot is enabled is being naive.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#32

Post by maxvu »

greybox wrote: post #5

Entitled "A tragic loss" but reads like a massive disclaimer. . .

I didn't read it like that. It felt like it was addressing directly the Tesla owner spooked at the news.

Also, if I were the target of the PR shenanigans pulled on Tesla, I would want to use precise language, too.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#33

Post by aab0 »

This sounds exactly like the previous Autopilot failure! A high-up truck where the Tesla slides under and crashes.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#35

Post by orthoganol »

simonsarris wrote: post #2

> What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Tragic no doubt, but I'm relieved that this was not a "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story. Autopilot has the p…

If autopilot fails when it's sunny and the obstacle is white, I have doubts about autopilot.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#36

Post by ModernMech »

TaylorGood wrote: post #14

As most of you have already seen, Autopilot has detected similar situations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X-5fKzmy38

I don't know if autopilot really "saved the day" there. Maybe for an incompetent driver (which is most, so this is a net positive for safety).

But as a human driver, I would have taken human psychology into account and guessed the turning car was going to take advantage of that gap, thus causing me to approach much more cautiously.

I don't know how fast that tesla was going, but I don't think I'd be doing more than 5-10 mph in that kind of traffic. I would also expect cars in the right lane to unexpectedly switch into the left. It seems to me the Tesla was overconfident and going about 25 mph.

edit: I feel like my tone here is too harsh (mainly because my personal reaction is that this autopilot feature is professionally irresponsible). Let me pull back my emotions a little and try again:

The only reason the autopilot feature here "saved the day" is because it was driving in an irresponsible manner in the first place. As the comment below me points out, it was driving at 45 MPH, compared to the 5-15 MPH you should be driving. For a defensive human driver, there shouldn't have been a close call in the first place.

The Tesla is driving irresponsibly because it cannot take into account human behavior. It stopped in time in this scenario, but there's obviously a point at which the stopped car could turn and the Tesla could not physically stop in time. This can happen at any speed, but the 45 MPH collision is much much worse than a 10 MPH collision.

I'd also like to point out that the autopilot was likely breaking the law. The speed limit on that road is probably 55 - 65 MPH, but the speed limit indicats the maximum speed in perfect conditions. When it's dark and raining and heavy traffic, going the speed limit is in fact speeding. If the Tesla had hit the turning car, the driver of the Tesla would probably have been cited for speeding, even at 45 MPH.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#37

Post by sawthat »

simonsarris wrote: post #2

> What we know is that the vehicle was on a divided highway with Autopilot engaged when a tractor trailer drove across the highway perpendicular to the Model S. Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied. Tragic no doubt, but I'm relieved that this was not a "Autopilot did something very very wrong" story. Autopilot has the p…

Technologies like autopilot are going to save lives. This was one of around 90 fatal traffic accidents in the US on the same day (based on historical averages). It's going to be hard to make a foolproof system, however anything that makes it less likely for an inattentive drive to crash into something is a win.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#38

Post by scythe »

> Neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky,

So this got me wondering: are there areas where retinae still do better than cameras at certain kinds of discrimination problems? Nature still has human technology beat on hardware in a few categories (particularly joints), but I didn't expect eyes to be one of them. When I look at or near a bright light, I can see objects close to the light much better than I can in a photograph, but I always assumed this was only because I had a cheap camera.

The corresponding question is: how expensive is the camera that prevents this accident?

Re: A Tragic Loss

#39

Post by mhurron »

fixermark wrote: post #12
dvcc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was entirely defensive and self-serving on behalf of Tesla. It's a general PR release, companies do these all the time. What made this so special?

the fact that they could. Imagine how many press releases there'd be per day if another auto company felt compelled to do one for each accident their cars were involved in.

You would see a similar release from any company where a technology they have been pushing could be front and center as the cause.

This isn't just another horrible car accident on US roads, the car was in charge this time and a technology they've been heralding for it's safety is going to be blamed. That's why there is a federal investigation into it. That's why there is a press release to protect the stock price.

Re: A Tragic Loss

#40

Post by Analemma_ »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #21

I mean I understand Tesla has to make a statement here and I understand they want to ensure everyone that it's not really their fault but to title a post "A Tragic Loss" and then spend the majority of the post discussing all of your car's safety features and how it wasn't your fault just seems tone deaf and distasteful to me. Maybe they had to do it for legal reasons I don't know (I'm certainly not a lawyer) and I'd…

I agree. I'm starting to get really weirded out by Tesla's immediate "not our fault!" blog posts every time a Tesla is involved in any kind of accident. I could see the necessity the first few times back when it was new technology to a lot of people (and Top Gear had it in for them), but with it happening over and over it seems whiny and a bit callous. How long to they plan to keep doing this?
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