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Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

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Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#31
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find a problem to solve in your local community and do what it takes to fix it, no matter how small. You'll learn, do good and get involved with your community more. I recently took six months off to try and solve some local problems. There hasn't been a dull moment. :)

Please expand on some of what you're working on! I've been thinking about just this sort of "work" to start dipping my toes into, don't quite know where to start.

A lot of it is me getting annoyed at something that certainly impacts many others. It's gone down some interesting paths. What I've found in general is that the small things not only add up, but they help find where the root causes are. So, if you can help fix the small things and enough people do it, the better the world becomes in general.

Things like, "Why has that lamp been out for a month?" can become very interesting if you pursue them to a certain depth. :)

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#32
post #16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are a programmer, now you have your next project for when you take some time off. ;-)

I have thought about doing that, but as with any ideas I have, I assume that if it was a good idea, someone would already be doing it!

If you want help with something like that, I'd love to. Oh, the dogfooding possibilities..

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#33
>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.”

I feel like this is a problem our whole life however it is only once we retire that we are forced to confront it. Until then we are able to avoid dealing with a lack of fulfilling activities outside of work, limited social connections and a weak sense of identity outside of work by simply working more. When we retire that coping mechanism goes away and you are left with no hobbies, a weak social network and a weak self image.

Personally, I strongly recommend trying cutting your work commitments to something like 20 hours per week. Do this for a year or so. It will give you a chance to realize that many of the things you previously did whenever you got the chance (sleeping in etc) become extremely boring when you can do them all the time.

After a while you will likely start to crave some sense of structure and accomplishment and the sooner you start filling the void outside of your work the better. Having a meaningful existence outside of your job will make you happier both now and in retirement.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#34

>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.” I feel like this is a problem our whole life however it is only once we retire that we are forced to confront it. Until then we are able to avoid dealing with a lack of fulfilling activities outside of work, limited social connections and a weak sense of iden…

I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source.

You don't want the entire value of your work and your social connections to be abruptly cut off once you leave the company. I saw this happen to both my parents. My dad was forced to retire at 53 and the value of his work was locked up inside that company (he worked there for over 20 years, so your skills develop in a bubble).

For the last year and a half, I've been working on open source sponsored by the company. (I've worked on open source since 2009, but this is the first time I've been paid for it.) Even though it's mostly "our" project, there are enough outsiders lurking / paying attention I know that if I were to leave the company, I might have some opportunities or people to reach out to, or even just people to talk to about technical topics.

Some of the proprietary software I've worked on has been very interesting, important, and technically sophisticated... but I know that once I leave the company, its value is drastically decreased. Basically you have to build up that value "from scratch" again, whereas open source can be forked, modified, combined, etc.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#35
I am only 30 but have been unemployed for about 15 months, due to a significant family health and legal situation.

I can definitely say that not working, even if other life needs are met, has had a hugely adverse affect. I definitely need to feel proud of what I am working on to feel whole and well.

Ceasing to work and then resuming a new job search is also demoralizing. Most people will not even consider hiring you unless you are already working, even if you can ace the code tests, point to open source or publicly available work samples, and explain your tech skills in extreme detail.

Few people seem to earnestly care what you can actually do technically. Ironically, I've found it's the ones who are hyperfocused on things like HackerRank tests who are least likely to care. Sure, you aced our HackerRank test, but after we thought about the fact you're not already employed we just decided no.

I've even had recruiters and hiring managers get irrationally angry at me via email feedback or in phone interviews just for being unemployed, like they are personally mad at me that they have to come up with a reason to reject me. Even when I explain it has been an unavoidable and quite severe family problem, they are still mad.

In a few cases it was even borderline verbal abuse. One recruiter took a very condescending tone with me and said something like, "it sounds like you don't even want to work" when I told him some of the things I was searching for in my next position. Then he proceeded to pressure me on several jobs that were clearly not at all appropriate for me.

It's incredibly demoralizing, and I am even quite good at what I do. Just tonight I am hacking away at some stuff involving integrating the Postgres C API with the NumPy C API so that I can easily call NumPy array functions on Postgres arrays, as a C extension. It involves knowing a lot about CPython, NumPy, the Postgres C API, Postgres arrays, and a mix of other stuff. My plan is to ultimately compare it with MonetDB, which has tight integration with NumPy arrays natively (whereas, for plpythonu functions, Postgres arrays are converted to Python lists, which is horrible).

This is not easy stuff, very advanced CPython stuff and I feel it shows I'm a fast learner too (I've only been using Python for a few years).

Doesn't matter. I don't have a job, so nobody looking to hire for the positions I'm seeking will even consider it.

It makes it very hard and depressing to continue trying (seemingly in vain) to keep my coding skills sharp.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#36
post #34

>“You go from working 50, 60, 70 hours a week to zero,” Moen says. “And it very much affects your identity. Who am I? For men, the answer usually is their job.” I feel like this is a problem our whole life however it is only once we retire that we are forced to confront it. Until then we are able to avoid dealing with a lack of fulfilling activities outside of work, limited social connections and a weak sense of iden…

I think this is why it's good to work for an employer who supports open source. You don't want the entire value of your work and your social connections to be abruptly cut off once you leave the company. I saw this happen to both my parents. My dad was forced to retire at 53 and the value of his work was locked up inside that company (he worked there for over 20 years, so your skills develop in a bubble). For the las…

I have also been employed to work on open source software. I actually didn't really think of it until now but it is nice to still see stuff going on in the project. I am still on some mailing lists plus I get notifications of tickets I previously touched being modified, commented on, resolved. It is also still quite within my capabilities to jump on and fix the occasional bug if I so desire, or just provide some thoughts on issues others are working through.

As you mention, the proprietary software companies I have worked for are very different. By close of business on your final day you are locked out of everything.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm 28 and have lost all the starry-eyed excitement :( I was top of class in college, then advanced in huge strides in the first years of my career; now I just want to go home and read a non-technical book. I might be burnt out.

Entirely possible. When I was about your age I wound up taking off and teaching English to little kids in Thailand. That was a great experience that involved a refreshing amount of time away from a computer. I was able to pick up my career afterwards easily enough. I actually wound up working on education related software so my little teaching experience may have even helped. The only lasting (sort of) negative was t…

I did the same at the same age as well, except I was teaching English in Japan. After only a few months of that, I had a burning desire to be back in a coding career, and to be as far away from eikaiwas as possible.

If you've never worked outside the tech industry, you would be amazed at how good we get it.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#38
I'm not sure it's related at all, but anecdotally I found myself often falling sick after completing a crunch period at work, or taking a 1-2 week off from work. Nothing serious, but a cold/fever typically.

As if being busy forces the body to not allow any sickness.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#39

As they say in the article, I think many people approach retirement as a cessation. From what I've seen of my own parents, I hope that retirement for me will be more a change of what I'm working on, and how I work, rather than whether or not I work. I'm also trying to make those changes now - working on what I want to work on, at a reasonable pace, at the level and times I'm interested. I'd quite happily keep doing t…

I view retirement mostly as financial freedom. I have every intention of working after retirement as I get personal enjoyment out of doing what I do. I just haven't decided what "work" will look like.

This. I am baffled by friends and family that talk about how they couldn't retire because what would they do? My response is to list the many, many things I want to do that I can't because I 'have to work': read more, learn new languages (spoken & computer), take up the piano/guitar, try new games (board, tabletoprpg, computer), write, program, etc.

The only reason I ever get bored is because I don't have the time, resources, and/or other people to do what I want. The thought of not having to rely on a work schedule to provide necessary resources sounds wonderful, not threatening.

Re: Why Continuing to Work Is Good for a Man’s Health

#40
post #38

I'm not sure it's related at all, but anecdotally I found myself often falling sick after completing a crunch period at work, or taking a 1-2 week off from work. Nothing serious, but a cold/fever typically. As if being busy forces the body to not allow any sickness.

Let down effect: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/health-wellness/article...

In psych class we were given the analogy of people getting sick right after mid-term/finals (after a period of sustained high levels of stress)

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