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Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

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Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#31

Post by turksforthewin »

philipov wrote: post #26
woodman wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The use of "I" vs "we" has been studied by a lot of people in a lot of different contexts, and intelligent people have arrived at very different conclusions. So I have no idea what a complete lack of attribution means, but I'm leaning towards it being an extreme version of "we". I believe to be an avoidance of personal responsibility and a hamfisted attempt at emotional manipulation, because it has absolutely no infl…

With sentences like 'How is that making internet safer???"' I think a simpler explanation would be that he's Posting On Forums While Drunk.

He's Turkish. English isn't his first language.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#32

Post by philipov »

turksforthewin wrote: post #31
philipov wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With sentences like 'How is that making internet safer???"' I think a simpler explanation would be that he's Posting On Forums While Drunk.

He's Turkish. English isn't his first language.

Given that, I think it is his use of emphatic punctuation throughout the post which gives the impression that he is emotionally tilted, and not speaking in a professional capacity. He is using his public platform to deliver an impassioned rant. I don't think that's a result of him being a non-native speaker.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#33

Post by [deleted] »

TruthAndDare wrote: post #20
dimdimdim wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else, not the "super mature", "super calculated", "super intelligent" begins they are made out to be. It's also important to note the arrogance - invented the 90 day trial :D

> Shows how most CEOs of even large companies are human like everyone else Um, it doesn't really say anything about most CEOs, does it? Actually, I think it shows how this guy is different from others, because he seems more nutty than most people.

[deleted]

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#34

Post by skywhopper »

Alas, it's too late to save the business they lost forever from my company and others who switched our business to another provider literally yesterday. Thanks Comodo, for letting us know you are not a company we wish to do business with.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#35

Post by spb »

fapjacks wrote: post #18
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #4

Evidently the company realized they were fighting a losing battle, particularly after the CEO's disastrous response: https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth...

Tangential, but what in the hell is with the whole thing where company execs refuse to use "I" in a sentence? Read anything typed up by some founder or something, and you see sentence after sentence deliberately omitting self-reference. Here specifically: "If they have right to it then more than happy to comply"... If they have right to it then I am/we are more than happy to comply. Anytime someone posts email corres…

I remember reading an article a while back (couldn't find it through Google) that talked about how people with abusive tendencies (which this kind of tortured diatribe seems adjacent to) have an accompanying tendency to psychologically distance themselves from their actions by avoiding first-person constructions, eg. "and then it happened" instead of "and then I did it".

That being said, it sounds like the cause of the omissions of just the words of the first-person constructions this post uses is more likely to be rooted in English being Melih's second language.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#36

Post by KB1JWQ »

ars wrote: post #6
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #4

Evidently the company realized they were fighting a losing battle, particularly after the CEO's disastrous response: https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth...

I give him credit for actually talking publicly with people. Most CEO's hide behind the PR department, or speak only one-way, without replies.

Sure, but most CEO's tend to determine exactly what their public-facing position IS before speaking. In this case he looks the fool as they're walking back his statements.

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#37

Post by hosh »

amluto wrote: post #16
paulftw wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One forum post, nine different sentences saying the same thing: "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate". To me this sounds quite similar to the ownership of the rectangle with rounded corners (I am actually not sure whose side I'm on in either dispute).

> "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate" It's even sillier than that. Comodo has long offered a 90 day free trial cert. You have to pay to renew. Let's Encrypt gives a 90 day free cert that's freely renewable as many times as you want along with an API to renew it. These aren't the same business models at all.

As far as I can tell, Let's Encrypt isn't a business model. It's funded by ISRG who describes themselves as a public-benefit corporation and is tax-exempt by the US tax authority. I don't see any direct profit motive for the ISRG itself, though there may be indirect profit benefits to the sponsors[1]. I don't see any direct ways Let's Encrypt takes payment; more likely, their revenue comes from donations.

What I don't get is why the CEO of Comodo, all the people on the thread all seem to assume Let's Encrypt has a business model, and that they are a competitor. The Comodo CEO seemed to keep coming back to that point, taking all of this personally. There is no business model to steal from Comodo because Let's Encrypt is not a business. And people kept responding and upholding that assumption?

Can someone give me a sanity check here on my logic? Am I the only person who sees this?

[1] https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/what-is-the-business-mod...

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#38

Post by hosh »

nneonneo wrote: post #27

In the original Comodo forum thread about this issue (where the CEO made some claims about owning the 90-day certificate) there is this new response from a staff member ( https://forums.comodo.com/general-discussion-off-topic-anyth... ): > With LE now being an operational business, we were never going to take the these trademark applications any further. Josh posted a link to the application and as of February 8th it…

How is it that the Comodo CEO kept assuming Let's Encrypt and ISRG is a business, when it isn't? It's like he's fixated on that assumption and is dragging everyone else into it.

Further, the last time I read through things about trademarks, my understanding is that they don't work the way some of the people posting say it does. Trademarks are influenced by whether it is a distinguishing mark or not. You can lose trademark protection if it comes into common use. Once registered, you have to keep defending it as a distinguishing mark. So I'm not sure where the "paralegal" in that forum thread is coming up with the argument that it somehow works like a "first-to-file" -- the person who possesses the paperwork possesses the right.

Maybe my understanding is incorrect. If it isn't off though, I can see their lawyers saying, Comodo really doesn't have much of a case (but it'd still eat up a lot of time and resources a small non-profit won't have).

Re: Comodo has filed for express abandonment of LetsEncrypt trademark applications

#40

Post by mikeash »

hosh wrote: post #37
amluto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Comodo invented 90 day free certificate" It's even sillier than that. Comodo has long offered a 90 day free trial cert. You have to pay to renew. Let's Encrypt gives a 90 day free cert that's freely renewable as many times as you want along with an API to renew it. These aren't the same business models at all.

As far as I can tell, Let's Encrypt isn't a business model. It's funded by ISRG who describes themselves as a public-benefit corporation and is tax-exempt by the US tax authority. I don't see any direct profit motive for the ISRG itself, though there may be indirect profit benefits to the sponsors[1]. I don't see any direct ways Let's Encrypt takes payment; more likely, their revenue comes from donations. What I don'…

Let's Encrypt offers something for free that Comodo charges money for. They are a competitor, even if they don't make money.

I think Comodo was crazy here, but I can totally understand why they see Let's Encrypt as a threat.

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