Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#31

Post by userbinator » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 2:27 AM UTC

Razengan wrote: post #22

Slightly unrelated but curious; have there been any attempts to transfer data as sound? I don't mean sound converted to electricity, or to represent 0s and 1s, but using a specific frequency range to represent 1, another range to represent 2, another for 3... I don't know the terms for these things. Using vibrations instead of electrons to transmit data over a wire? Do creatures like dolphins do this?

Some of the very first remote controls used ultrasound.

http://www.pushclicktouch.com/blog/?p=107

They didn't even need batteries, since they were purely mechanical.

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#32

Post by 0x0 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 2:31 AM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #30

0x0 wrote: post #28

I wish there was a youtube link that demo'ed this here :)

If you'd like to play with the base modem, sans TCP stack, have a look at the emscriptened version here https://quiet.github.io/quiet-profile-lab/

That is super cool! Is there a receiver too, that one can run on a 2nd computer, and transmit text/files?

Edit: wow, the ultrasonic thing is really cool. Imagine putting that in mobile apps and having them communicate "silently" over the air!

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#33

Post by NamTaf » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 2:35 AM UTC

Was there not a PoC recently (~months ago) of someone who did similar over a speaker/microphone but outside the audible range of ears? It was a PoC of the Flame malware capability to jump airgapped PCs

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#34

Post by ww520 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 3:11 AM UTC

alanh wrote: post #20

With this headline, I cannot hear anything in my head except “the dial-up noise.” TCP over sound was how I used to connect to the Internet…

Yep, the good old dial-up modem.

In this case, I assume they can beat the old modem bandwidth by cramming modulation in more ranges of frequency, with no need to adhering to the frequency range of the voice phone line.

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#35

Post by brian-armstrong » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 3:14 AM UTC

0x0 wrote: post #32

brian-armstrong wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you'd like to play with the base modem, sans TCP stack, have a look at the emscriptened version here https://quiet.github.io/quiet-profile-lab/

That is super cool! Is there a receiver too, that one can run on a 2nd computer, and transmit text/files? Edit: wow, the ultrasonic thing is really cool. Imagine putting that in mobile apps and having them communicate "silently" over the air!

If you want to try 2 devices, here's another demo, again sans TCP https://quiet.github.io/quiet-js/

I recommend running the receiver on a non-mobile device if you try this. Unfortunately running a receiver smoothly from a mobile browser is fairly difficult.

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#36

Post by niftich » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 3:42 AM UTC

NamTaf wrote: post #33

Was there not a PoC recently (~months ago) of someone who did similar over a speaker/microphone but outside the audible range of ears? It was a PoC of the Flame malware capability to jump airgapped PCs

Not sure if this is what you meant, but Chromecast's guest mode will pair using ultrasound. The guy who worked on it has some code using the WebAudio API on github and his linked blog:

https://github.com/borismus/sonicnet.js

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#37

Post by andai » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 4:02 AM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #15

peteretep wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> over a non-traditional eth, > in this case sound Sound is a non-traditional way of moving data?!

Non-traditional in the sense that I can't immediately transport data over my sound card with

Mouth sounds.

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#38

Post by 0x0 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 4:03 AM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #35

0x0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is super cool! Is there a receiver too, that one can run on a 2nd computer, and transmit text/files? Edit: wow, the ultrasonic thing is really cool. Imagine putting that in mobile apps and having them communicate "silently" over the air!

If you want to try 2 devices, here's another demo, again sans TCP https://quiet.github.io/quiet-js/ I recommend running the receiver on a non-mobile device if you try this. Unfortunately running a receiver smoothly from a mobile browser is fairly difficult.

That link is worthy of a HN post in itself! :D

Wow, what about ad networks abusing this for cross-domain cross-tab communications?!?

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#39

Post by brian-armstrong » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 4:08 AM UTC

0x0 wrote: post #38

brian-armstrong wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to try 2 devices, here's another demo, again sans TCP https://quiet.github.io/quiet-js/ I recommend running the receiver on a non-mobile device if you try this. Unfortunately running a receiver smoothly from a mobile browser is fairly difficult.

That link is worthy of a HN post in itself! :D Wow, what about ad networks abusing this for cross-domain cross-tab communications?!?

I posted that link a few months ago and it was pretty well-received. Today's submission is more iterating -- the one in the link offers a basic frame-only interface but today's submission is a full network stack

I considered the cross-tab case but couldn't think of an obvious way to implement that. They'd have to get mic permissions, at any rate

Re: Show HN: TCP/UDP over sound

#40

Post by 0x0 » Tue, Jun 14, 2016, 4:15 AM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #39

0x0 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That link is worthy of a HN post in itself! :D Wow, what about ad networks abusing this for cross-domain cross-tab communications?!?

I posted that link a few months ago and it was pretty well-received. Today's submission is more iterating -- the one in the link offers a basic frame-only interface but today's submission is a full network stack I considered the cross-tab case but couldn't think of an obvious way to implement that. They'd have to get mic permissions, at any rate

Oops, I guess I forgot I approved the mic on that domain already. That's a fair point and it would keep user privacy intact. Excellent demonstrations either way. It's like an audio QR code. Very inspiring!