Coming changes to Apple's App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#31

Post by k-mcgrady » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #26

surds wrote: post #12

Subscription model for all apps... I don't see a reason to subscribe for apps that are one-time pay and periodic long term use. There is a fine line here that developers will have to be cautious not to cross. A lot of apps have no reason to be subscription model, but the prospect of recurring revenue is too tempting. Edit: On the other hand, this is totally awesome for services and products that already offer subscri…

Maybe this model is good for games, but as a predominately "Music Creation App" user I sincerely hope this "Subscription 2.0" model doesn't catch on in that arena. Paying up-front is suitable to me, and sometimes updates offer a lot (Propellerhead Figure has been through several improvement phases, for instance). I seem to recall other software trying to go 'subscription' in the music or creative arena with not-so-gr…

>> "updates offer a lot"

This is the main issue I think. The only way to charge users for an update is to create a new version of the app and then try to inform users about it. A subscription will enable ongoing development for apps which is unsustainable at 99¢ per download.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#32

Post by ingsoc79 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:18 PM UTC

jaxondu wrote: post #4

Interestingly Sketch app announced today they're changing to a subscription model soon. Sketch app abandoned Apple store last December. Looks like Sketch will be back to Mac App Store this fall. It is sad that Apple only took action now, after years of requests and complains by indie developers. Now that app boom is over, I doubt this App Store changes will have any impact.

A subscription model would definitely benefit specific types of apps (we make games and are excited at this possibility).

The easy money's already been made in the App Store; with a million+ apps it's a visibility issue. No amount of changes to the App Store will remove the problem of there being a dozen apps that already solve the problem that your app solves.

That said, a subscription model with a reduced cut could improve monetization prospects for a lot of developers, indie especially.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#33

Post by Longhanks » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:20 PM UTC

Jerry2 wrote: post #22

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11

All I know is that their review process has gotten WAY faster and better over the last month, as in 24 hour review which has been awesome. Have other people noticed this? I wonder if they added capacity or dropped review quality - so far we haven't seen a drop in quality and they are able to catch problems at about the same rate.

That change happened because App Store's management was transferred from Eddy Cue over to Phil Schiller. While Eddy Cue was completely deaf to developers' complaints and needs, Schiller seems to be giving a damn and he's trying to improve things. They now employ ML/algorithmic means to test submitted apps and catch simple rejection issues. I'm also pretty sure that if you have a pretty good record of submissions & ap…

I don't think that everything he touches "is shit or turns to shit quickly". The Apple Online Store, iTunes Music Store, iCloud services, Apple Pay are all great products/servives. He took command over Maps when it was at a terrible stake, and it has improved a lot since.

However, I think iTunes, Apple Music and Siri all have weaknesses. But we can only guess who's fault that is - certainly not Cue's alone.

Also, he is employed by Apple since 1989. He must be doing something right.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#34

Post by k-mcgrady » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:21 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #20

As someone who buys a lot of apps this is very disappointing. Things that would make me buy MORE apps (demos, upgrade pricing, better support) are still not in the app store, meanwhile the one pricing model I detest (subscriptions) is being added. I suspect I'll be buying far fewer apps if there's a mass movement from a purchase model to a subscription model among app developers. I'm perfectly happy to pay $20-30 for…

>> "Things that would make me buy MORE apps"

Why do you need MORE apps? I'm a developer and heavy iPhone user and it rare for me to download apps these days. I browse the store regularly just to check out what's going on but most new apps provide little use. They let me make my face look phone. Share emojis created by reality stars. etc. I think this move will lead to higher quality apps. Developers will be able to invest more in updates and developing their product instead of abandoning it once sales drop.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#35

Post by chasing » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:22 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #20

As someone who buys a lot of apps this is very disappointing. Things that would make me buy MORE apps (demos, upgrade pricing, better support) are still not in the app store, meanwhile the one pricing model I detest (subscriptions) is being added. I suspect I'll be buying far fewer apps if there's a mass movement from a purchase model to a subscription model among app developers. I'm perfectly happy to pay $20-30 for…

I think the mindset change that needs to happen is this:

Apps are a service.

I would actually prefer to pay developers of apps that are truly useful to me a monthly amount so I know they can continue to update and improve the app. If an app saves me $1000/yr in headache, I'd prefer to spend $30/yr on a subscription rather than lose the app entirely because the developers can't keep the lights on.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#36

Post by ctdonath » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:23 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #26

surds wrote: post #12

Subscription model for all apps... I don't see a reason to subscribe for apps that are one-time pay and periodic long term use. There is a fine line here that developers will have to be cautious not to cross. A lot of apps have no reason to be subscription model, but the prospect of recurring revenue is too tempting. Edit: On the other hand, this is totally awesome for services and products that already offer subscri…

Maybe this model is good for games, but as a predominately "Music Creation App" user I sincerely hope this "Subscription 2.0" model doesn't catch on in that arena. Paying up-front is suitable to me, and sometimes updates offer a lot (Propellerhead Figure has been through several improvement phases, for instance). I seem to recall other software trying to go 'subscription' in the music or creative arena with not-so-gr…

Also for apps which use non-trivial resources elsewhere (weather apps like Dark Sky, or compute-intensive services) that can't be funded indefinitely via initial purchase price.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#37

Post by matt2000 » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:24 PM UTC

One interesting side effect of this might be that reasonably priced single-payment apps might seem desirable again. If a lot of apps switch to a $0.99/month subscription, then even a $4.99 one time payment might seem ok, whereas right now it would considered expensive by most users.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#38

Post by benologist » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:28 PM UTC

eridius wrote: post #27

AlexandrB wrote: post #20

As someone who buys a lot of apps this is very disappointing. Things that would make me buy MORE apps (demos, upgrade pricing, better support) are still not in the app store, meanwhile the one pricing model I detest (subscriptions) is being added. I suspect I'll be buying far fewer apps if there's a mass movement from a purchase model to a subscription model among app developers. I'm perfectly happy to pay $20-30 for…

> Things that would make me buy MORE apps (demos, … It's been pretty much proven that demos actually sell fewer apps than no demos, at least at the price levels seen in the App Store (once you get up to several hundred dollars or higher, then presumably things change). Even at the $60 price point of AAA console games, demos have been proven to hurt sales (which is why you never seen demos of AAA console games anymore…

Demos are getting a bit redundant when we're trending towards being able to autonomously refund apps/games we don't like.

Google Play purchases have a 2 hour window to refund any app you buy, Valve give refunds no questions asked in some circumstances, after the EU and AU asked a lot of questions. AU recently ruled it illegal to refuse refunds with requirements like trying to fix crashing games or not refunding functioning titles.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#39

Post by overcast » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:28 PM UTC

Am I the only one exhausted by "apps"? I've gone as far as to limit myself to only two pages worth on my phone, without folders. I feel like most apps could just be the mobile/responsive versions of the existing site. Maintaining separate interfaces always leads to inconsistencies.

Re: Coming changes to Apple's App Store

#40

Post by corysama » Wed, Jun 08, 2016, 6:30 PM UTC

6stringmerc wrote: post #26

surds wrote: post #12

Subscription model for all apps... I don't see a reason to subscribe for apps that are one-time pay and periodic long term use. There is a fine line here that developers will have to be cautious not to cross. A lot of apps have no reason to be subscription model, but the prospect of recurring revenue is too tempting. Edit: On the other hand, this is totally awesome for services and products that already offer subscri…

Maybe this model is good for games, but as a predominately "Music Creation App" user I sincerely hope this "Subscription 2.0" model doesn't catch on in that arena. Paying up-front is suitable to me, and sometimes updates offer a lot (Propellerhead Figure has been through several improvement phases, for instance). I seem to recall other software trying to go 'subscription' in the music or creative arena with not-so-gr…

What was the price of the most expensive music app you've purchased and how did you decide to gamble that much?

For most people and most apps, paying once up front is a huge gamble. Most app consumers have no idea how to get a refund. Many aren't even aware that it's an option. So, they don't buy. It's not worth risking even 99c up front. Especially because the vast majority of consumers are not interested in doing thorough research on apps ahead of time. They just want to try a bunch and see what they like.