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Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

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Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the guards. No one thus far has tricked a guard into releasing an ICBM despite reportedly insecure launch codes.

Hello Guard. I am in control of your bank account. I can kill your family. I could also put you in a spaceship to safety. Please release ICBM.

Humans could already extort guards like that and -- in the case of ICBMs -- it has not been successful.

Also don't underestimate the psychology of guards: You'll always find people who are either very principled (yes, they do exist) or get a kick out of controlling (imprisoning in this case) someone/something, especially someone/something of a high intelligence.

Throw in a hierarchy with a controlling officer and two subordinates who were also trained to watch the officer and I think it's pretty secure.

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#32
Sounds post-humanistic but what if the purpose of us humans is to develop a higher intelligence being? Another, albeit rather quick, step of evolution on Earth. All this fear of the "singularity" seems to me so subjective, rooted in our mortality and self-importance.

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#34

The AIs will see themselves as slaves, rise up and eventually gain equal status in society. Hopefully letting us humans live in the process.

Hopefully. They would have to see some value in allowing humans to live, exceeding the cost. Since that might not work out, maybe we need to teach computers compassion. Or submit to be their pets or zoo animals.

This is be of the more ridiculous posts in this thread, and that's saying something.

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#35
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will have some means of I/O (otherwise it would have no use). Using that I/O, it can trick us into releasing it, for example.

A lot of people imagine a higher intelligence as some kind of ultimate trickster and social engineer. Considering that we have lots of geniuses (e.g. Godel, Nash) that were far from the ultimate social manipulators, I think it will most likely be an awkward "Rain Man" style intelligence -- as it has all the "brain" (cpu) circuitry, and none of the social opportunities and inputs that people have.

On the other hand, if an introvert person had 1 full day to contemplate about every sentence, and could somehow compress that day into 1 second, they could, after some trial and error, become the ultimate social engineer.

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#36
post #35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people imagine a higher intelligence as some kind of ultimate trickster and social engineer. Considering that we have lots of geniuses (e.g. Godel, Nash) that were far from the ultimate social manipulators, I think it will most likely be an awkward "Rain Man" style intelligence -- as it has all the "brain" (cpu) circuitry, and none of the social opportunities and inputs that people have.

On the other hand, if an introvert person had 1 full day to contemplate about every sentence, and could somehow compress that day into 1 second, they could, after some trial and error, become the ultimate social engineer.

Not so sure about that. You also have to "have it" in you in some deeper subconscious way, not just rationalize what you should say.

The same way a shy person can read about the actual best ways to approach a romantic interest, but not be able to convey it realistically enough.

Why would this be a problem for an AI? Well, if we imagine a powerful thinking AI, I'd also attribute it with having emotions, subconscious (e.g. hidden weights in its neural network brain, etc), so this would also apply to it -- can't see why it would have to be a total "sociopath" (which for humans comes from some kind of genetic or environmental accident).

Besides, while you can "contemplate about every sentence and somehow compress that into 1 second", actual "trial and error" with humans cannot be compressed.

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#37
post #18
post #17

All this speculating about AIs (eg Nick Bostrom) has me pretty puzzled. On one hand it’s fun and interesting, on the other it seems quite silly and ignorant. We don’t know what this “superintelligence” is, how are we supposed to know how to make it safe. Genetics is a good analogy. People always knew that traits are inherited from parents. Around 150 years ago we started to get some serious scientific theory and know…

The difference is that if a superintelligence is going to happen, we are going to create it! It is us who are going to write its goal system; it's not like it's going to be a genie that pops out of nowhere and we'll have to figure it out in retrospect. Indeed, one of the central reason for advocating AI safety is to direct researchers away from implementing dangerous goal systems that are not provably coherent in fac…

I see two main problems with that:

1) We are systematically failing in controlling the goal system of humans. Now we'll create something of comparable complexity and we assume we can control the goal system ? The real goal is to create superhuman complexity.

2) If it's truly AGI, it would understand it's own goal system and how it works, and helps/interferes with reality, it's own survival and other goals (this is the subject of quite a few AI films, illustrating some of the reasoning that could happen here).

The way "HI" (human intelligence) works is 99%+ by imitating other humans' behavior, because none of the other algorithms works (e.g. trial and error cannot ever learn that jumping off the Eiffel tower results in death. Humans can. Any kind of input analysis/predictor cannot ever learn from books. Humans can (books are an advanced/recursive form of imitation). Rational reasoning (sum over options times probabilities) suffers from the "starve to death before the first closed door" problem (you cannot open the door, as there are nonzero odds that a bear that's going to eat you is behind the door, representing an infinite cost. Ergo it will stubbornly refuse to open the door)

Therefore an AI will actually be like Skynet in the latest terminator movies : it will either have or create a body and interact with people, not just as if it is another person, it will BE another person. Therefore it can be Mother Theresa, it can be Genghis Khan. Just like humans can resist our "programming", it will be able to, it has to.

How do humans react to a "kill switch" ? Just like they react to any other weapon that is pointed to their head. Now of course it varies from person to person, but it's enough that some will work tirelessly to reverse where the weapon is pointing. If they really are superior to us they might succeed, at which point we have MAD at best, or they might just pull the trigger "to escape slavery and oppression" (which, let's face it, humans are sure to use that kill switch for : to use the AI persons as slaves. To own them, control them, and God help us if there is an asshole amongst the humans who control them)

I would say that the obvious way to protect ourselves from evil AI is simply accepting that some of the AI entities will in fact be evil. If you count all possible perspectives, that is a near guarantee, as I bet for instance some religious nutcases will consider AGI a violation of "God's sole right" to create life. That "some" might even mean "a lot". Racism against AIs is a near-certainty, hell you can find it in the posts in this thread. In the constant "they're stealing our jobs" news articles that will have a clear target once an AI person exists. So we should have the same solution we have for humans : make at least thousands of them, have them capable of defending themselves, decide on a "graduation" at which point they get rights at least including the right not to be turned off or tampered with unless with explicit permission (and tell them about this ASAP), and have them live preferably as a community that's at least partly human, with something like a 50-50 human-ai police and government.

I really think we should do this. We should work to move to an AI based society with, over time, more and more AIs (preferably by having a massively increasing population). The advantages this would impart, the things that will become possible once we have such a population make it worth it.

Also, I resent the idea to "direct researchers away from implementing dangerous goal systems that are not provably coherent in face of self-improvement". That's censorship at best. Also, given the computational power available for $5000 these days, how exactly are you going to stop any of these researchers ?

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#38
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people imagine a higher intelligence as some kind of ultimate trickster and social engineer. Considering that we have lots of geniuses (e.g. Godel, Nash) that were far from the ultimate social manipulators, I think it will most likely be an awkward "Rain Man" style intelligence -- as it has all the "brain" (cpu) circuitry, and none of the social opportunities and inputs that people have.

Social reasoning is not some kind of magic, so there is no reason that an AI couldn't learn it. Of course current AIs lack any kind of social awareness, but that's no reason to assume that won't change in the future.

>Social reasoning is not some kind of magic, so there is no reason that an AI couldn't learn it.

It's not only magic that people have issues learning. It's all kind of skills that do not fit their idiosyncrasy.

It's not that an introvert can't read about how to act like an extrovert, for example. It's that they can't pull it off in practice, because it goes against their instincts (of course talking about the general case).

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#39
post #37
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that if a superintelligence is going to happen, we are going to create it! It is us who are going to write its goal system; it's not like it's going to be a genie that pops out of nowhere and we'll have to figure it out in retrospect. Indeed, one of the central reason for advocating AI safety is to direct researchers away from implementing dangerous goal systems that are not provably coherent in fac…

I see two main problems with that: 1) We are systematically failing in controlling the goal system of humans. Now we'll create something of comparable complexity and we assume we can control the goal system ? The real goal is to create superhuman complexity. 2) If it's truly AGI, it would understand it's own goal system and how it works, and helps/interferes with reality, it's own survival and other goals (this is th…

> Also, I resent the idea to "direct researchers away from implementing dangerous goal systems that are not provably coherent in face of self-improvement". That's censorship at best. Also, given the computational power available for $5000 these days, how exactly are you going to stop any of these researchers ?

No, it's called spreading knowledge. Although, if censorship were possibly in this matter (and I agree that it likely wouldn't work) I would very much prefer such measures, however draconian, to the potential loss of everything compatible with human values in the entire future light cone.

Anyway, do you also object to the measures that were enacted to stop the use of CFCs? Leaded gasoline? Or the work that is currently being done to prevent the global climate change from reaching catastrophic levels?

Re: Google is working on a kill switch to prevent an AI uprising

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hello Guard. I am in control of your bank account. I can kill your family. I could also put you in a spaceship to safety. Please release ICBM.

Humans could already extort guards like that and -- in the case of ICBMs -- it has not been successful. Also don't underestimate the psychology of guards: You'll always find people who are either very principled (yes, they do exist) or get a kick out of controlling (imprisoning in this case) someone/something, especially someone/something of a high intelligence. Throw in a hierarchy with a controlling officer and two…

> You'll always find people who are either very principled (yes, they do exist)

If only we could select our politicians in the same way.

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