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Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

nautil.us

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Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#31

Post by stevekemp »

distances wrote: post #16

One kind of a record in Finland was a man deceased for six years before anyone noticed. He had already mummified in his bed when found. Even the landlord didn't ask after him, as the rent was automatically paid by social services for this whole time. There's also an English Wikipedia page of the case at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunula_mummy .

Sadly this happens elsewhere in the world too although the case I remember was "only" dead for two years:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Vincent

Having just moved to Finland I'm less believing of the stereotype that Finnish people as a whole are insular and isolated, but I think there are always going to be agoraphobic, depressed, or otherwise very isolated individuals in any country.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#32

Post by golergka »

minikites wrote: post #17
tristor wrote: post #15

Another part of this I think that people don't really talk about is increased social isolation as a direct cause of Internet addiction and the rise of social media and online gaming. There is a term for this concept in Japan 'hikikomori', but it's just as true in the US. As someone who recently turned 30, yet has remained single most of my life despite my other successes, I see it very clearly. I grew up along with t…

>remained single most of my life despite my other successes I think the media has a role to play here too, the idea that you need romantic love in order to be successful or complete is a toxic one. Edit: a lot of replies to my comment are misinterpreting what I'm saying as "romance is a new idea invented by the media" when all I said is that it's possible to have a complete and successful life without romance.

This idea have been in place for ages, so I don't think we can connect it to changes that we see.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#33

Post by enraged_camel »

minikites wrote: post #17
tristor wrote: post #15

Another part of this I think that people don't really talk about is increased social isolation as a direct cause of Internet addiction and the rise of social media and online gaming. There is a term for this concept in Japan 'hikikomori', but it's just as true in the US. As someone who recently turned 30, yet has remained single most of my life despite my other successes, I see it very clearly. I grew up along with t…

>remained single most of my life despite my other successes I think the media has a role to play here too, the idea that you need romantic love in order to be successful or complete is a toxic one. Edit: a lot of replies to my comment are misinterpreting what I'm saying as "romance is a new idea invented by the media" when all I said is that it's possible to have a complete and successful life without romance.

Loneliness due to lack of romantic relationships is a real thing.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#34

Post by ericabiz »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #19

I interact with dozens of people daily. I tell jokes, I listen to their feelings, I applaud their conquests, I mourn their losses. On the internet. You think any of those people are going to miss me if I'm gone. Kinda sad, really.

I would miss you! I like your Facebook updates and silly jokes and pictures of your family. I always read your stuff there. I know we don't get to see each other in person much, but know that there are people out there who care!

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#35

Post by brightball »

A big part of this that's unpopular to discuss in current culture is people actively avoiding going to a church. Whether you actually donate and believe everything that is said isn't really a factor in whether or not you can show up every week, meet other people in your community, participate in events, be there for each other at during the hard times in life, have fun activities for your kids where you can meet other parents and get involved in the community with those same people. At least in the southeast US where I'm from, churches have filled this multifaceted role of connecting people for years. All ages from newborns to elderly. I don't know of another community structure that even comes close to pulling that off.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#36

Post by logicchains »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #5

Not the main focus of the article but I've been wondering lately why Japan is considered to have done poorly over the last 30 years economically when a lot of the big multi national brands that are very popular all over the world during that period are Japanese. I'm not an economist (or Japanese) but from the outside when you can list Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Suburu, Shimano, Nintendo, Hitachi, Yamaha, Sega and Mu…

Because for some reason many commentators find it perfectly reasonable to use absolute GDP growth as a metric for comparing Japan to America, ignoring the fact that America's population is growing at around 3% while Japan's population growth is around 0% or negative (which means all things being equal one'd expect America's GDP growth to be around 3% higher). In terms of GDP growth per capita, which is the metric that actually matters when comparing standard of living, Japan hasn't done so badly.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2014/09/05/japan-is-...

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#37

Post by gkanai »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #20
gkanai wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can anyone share some insight? If you were around in the 1980s, when Japan was at it's economic peak, Japan has slowly been passed by China and continues to tread water (i.e. stay in the same place, as China has passed it.) Japan is a poorly performing economy in that there's been little to no growth since the bubble burst in the late 80s. Other economies have gone through growth stages and we had the Asian financi…

Thanks, very interesting. I wasn't born until '87 so all I've ever known is Japan as it is now rather than growing in the way China has been.

Growth is next to zero in many first world economies. Most of Europe is basically not growing. Only Germany is. Many economies in Latin America are doing poorly, especially Brasil, Argentina- Venezuela is in free-fall. There is growth in Africa (from a much lower starting point), but it is uneven. There is a little growth in parts of South East Asia (Indonesia is doing ok, as is the Philippines, and Vietnam not bad) but growth is hard to find in most countries. The US and Germany are doing well. China is doing badly in comparison to the 10%+ growth they had in the 2000-2010 decade, but they are still growing.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#39

Post by supergreg »

minikites wrote: post #17
tristor wrote: post #15

Another part of this I think that people don't really talk about is increased social isolation as a direct cause of Internet addiction and the rise of social media and online gaming. There is a term for this concept in Japan 'hikikomori', but it's just as true in the US. As someone who recently turned 30, yet has remained single most of my life despite my other successes, I see it very clearly. I grew up along with t…

>remained single most of my life despite my other successes I think the media has a role to play here too, the idea that you need romantic love in order to be successful or complete is a toxic one. Edit: a lot of replies to my comment are misinterpreting what I'm saying as "romance is a new idea invented by the media" when all I said is that it's possible to have a complete and successful life without romance.

Do you mean one does not need romantic love to have a relationship or one does not need a relationship at all? The former seems like an archaic idea (arranged marriages for example) while the later I've seen very questioned by society, mostly by older people.

Re: Alienation Is Killing Americans and Japanese

#40

Post by distances »

stevekemp wrote: post #31
distances wrote: post #16

One kind of a record in Finland was a man deceased for six years before anyone noticed. He had already mummified in his bed when found. Even the landlord didn't ask after him, as the rent was automatically paid by social services for this whole time. There's also an English Wikipedia page of the case at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunula_mummy .

Sadly this happens elsewhere in the world too although the case I remember was "only" dead for two years: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joyce_Vincent Having just moved to Finland I'm less believing of the stereotype that Finnish people as a whole are insular and isolated, but I think there are always going to be agoraphobic, depressed, or otherwise very isolated individuals in any country.

I think the stereotype is partly due to the climate. The rainy autumns and long winters simply make one stay inside a lot more. As a small compensation, the summertime in Finland is super bright, lively, and active.
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