Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014) • Hacker News Board

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#31

Post by nhumrich » Mon, May 23, 2016, 2:12 AM UTC

danielvf wrote: post #20

nhumrich wrote: post #7

Wait, isn't refusing clients/opportunities/etc. because of "asshole-ness" in its own right also an asshole move? I mean sure you have good intentions, but isn't "no I'm not letting you into my lane cause your an asshole" kind of a hippicritical thing to say?

Bad customer behavior aways seems to go along with ending up with less money for the job in the end. Particularly as a freelancer, you only have so many billable hours in a week. You can spend those hours with people you enjoy, and make more money, or with people who make you miserable, and make less money. Pretty obvious choice.

Ya, it all makes sense, not saying it doesn't, I just mean its kind of ironic and an asshole move in-and-of-itself. Sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the nicest.

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#32

Post by cjcenizal » Mon, May 23, 2016, 2:28 AM UTC

I'm sure their intentions are good but the approach comes across as facile. What's an asshole?

Instead of saying "no assholes", just list the behaviors that define assholes and just say "don't do these things."

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#33

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, May 23, 2016, 3:07 AM UTC

nhumrich wrote: post #7

Wait, isn't refusing clients/opportunities/etc. because of "asshole-ness" in its own right also an asshole move? I mean sure you have good intentions, but isn't "no I'm not letting you into my lane cause your an asshole" kind of a hippicritical thing to say?

Time is too precious to do business deals with assholes. When I was freelancer every time I tried to work with assholes I ended up losing money and opportunities with reasonable people. It's really not worth it.

Within a company I am very doubtful. I think it may lead to censorship.

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#34

Post by chris_wot » Mon, May 23, 2016, 4:18 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #17

chris_wot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's a manipulative arsehole, but it does seem very aggressive and judgemental to use the term arseholes. Normally it's only arseholes who tend to call other people arseholes, after all :-)

I disagree. People intuitively know or quickly learn when others are socially trying to cause them harm. Classifying anyone doing that as an asshole is putting a word on a reflexive assessment even non-judgmental people do and understand. They might choose to take it a different direction in how they respond. They know person was being an asshole in that moment. From there, we could say someone who consistently perfo…

Fair comment. Lucky for me I guess, because I can be often be an arsehole.

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#35

Post by k__ » Mon, May 23, 2016, 8:41 AM UTC

Problem is, most people don't know what a real asshole is.

I mean, seriously. I dated so many people who were angry at me because I was honest and wanted to work on the relationship issues and don't just sweet talk everything.

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#36

Post by robotresearcher » Mon, May 23, 2016, 9:02 AM UTC

k__ wrote: post #35

Problem is, most people don't know what a real asshole is. I mean, seriously. I dated so many people who were angry at me because I was honest and wanted to work on the relationship issues and don't just sweet talk everything.

Read this back to yourself a couple of times. How does that attitude come across?

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#37

Post by robotresearcher » Mon, May 23, 2016, 9:04 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #19

With a passive aggressive policy, how would one expect anything but a bunch of assholes? Negative rules are always a problem, because there's no consensus about what they mean. What does "playing politics mean"? Or "obnoxious"? You know what's easier? Have a "treat your colleagues with respect" rule. Define that as "treat others as you would have them treat you".

> "treat your colleagues with respect"

It'd be more respectful to assume that. Writing down basic social and professional skills as rules is patronizing.

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#38

Post by thiht » Mon, May 23, 2016, 10:07 AM UTC

robotresearcher wrote: post #36

k__ wrote: post #35

Problem is, most people don't know what a real asshole is. I mean, seriously. I dated so many people who were angry at me because I was honest and wanted to work on the relationship issues and don't just sweet talk everything.

Read this back to yourself a couple of times. How does that attitude come across?

I'd say "honest"

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#39

Post by collyw » Mon, May 23, 2016, 11:32 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #17

chris_wot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's a manipulative arsehole, but it does seem very aggressive and judgemental to use the term arseholes. Normally it's only arseholes who tend to call other people arseholes, after all :-)

I disagree. People intuitively know or quickly learn when others are socially trying to cause them harm. Classifying anyone doing that as an asshole is putting a word on a reflexive assessment even non-judgmental people do and understand. They might choose to take it a different direction in how they respond. They know person was being an asshole in that moment. From there, we could say someone who consistently perfo…

Not always. I try to give people th benefit of the doubt.

I think I am a good judge of character (I imagine that most people think the same). There are a number of people who I have initially judged as assholes and I decided they are good people after getting to know them better and likewise there are people who I have liked at first and they turned out to be sneaky and manipulative assholes. (There were far more in the second category funnily enough).

Re: Our “No Asshole” Rule (2014)

#40

Post by ljw1001 » Mon, May 23, 2016, 11:43 AM UTC

nickpsecurity wrote: post #17

chris_wot wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he's a manipulative arsehole, but it does seem very aggressive and judgemental to use the term arseholes. Normally it's only arseholes who tend to call other people arseholes, after all :-)

I disagree. People intuitively know or quickly learn when others are socially trying to cause them harm. Classifying anyone doing that as an asshole is putting a word on a reflexive assessment even non-judgmental people do and understand. They might choose to take it a different direction in how they respond. They know person was being an asshole in that moment. From there, we could say someone who consistently perfo…

People actually suck at (a) knowing when they are being an asshole, and (b) not interpreting anything that doesn't benefit them as hostile to them. @see Why Everyone (Else) Is a Hypocrite: Evolution and the Modular Mind, by Kurzban. https://www.amazon.com/Why-Everyone-Else-Hypocrite-Evolution...