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Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

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Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#31

Post by icebraining »

amluto wrote: post #29
ascagnel_ wrote: post #20

I've said it before, and it bears repeating here: ContentID is not, has not been, and will never be the DMCA. It was developed by YouTube so Viacom would drop the suit that would likely have stripped YouTube's safe harbor protections under the DMCA. ContentID takedowns are not DMCA takedowns. They operate on a different, much less strict standard. Anyone that works with YouTube can flag any video for any reason (see…

Which suggests a nice solution if Congress were to be reasonable: amend the DMCA to clarify that ContentID itself would invalidate safe harbor. In other words, require actual neutrality for safe harbor.

Thing is, Google owns the site, and presumably has the right to decide which videos it wants on its site. Unless one thinks they should never be allowed to take videos down, as disgusting or hateful they might be (except for valid DMCA requests), how would you draft that rule?

Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#33

Post by illumin8 »

ascagnel_ wrote: post #20

I've said it before, and it bears repeating here: ContentID is not, has not been, and will never be the DMCA. It was developed by YouTube so Viacom would drop the suit that would likely have stripped YouTube's safe harbor protections under the DMCA. ContentID takedowns are not DMCA takedowns. They operate on a different, much less strict standard. Anyone that works with YouTube can flag any video for any reason (see…

Dear Google: This is about as evil as you can get.

Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#34

Post by Klathmon »

illumin8 wrote: post #33
ascagnel_ wrote: post #20

I've said it before, and it bears repeating here: ContentID is not, has not been, and will never be the DMCA. It was developed by YouTube so Viacom would drop the suit that would likely have stripped YouTube's safe harbor protections under the DMCA. ContentID takedowns are not DMCA takedowns. They operate on a different, much less strict standard. Anyone that works with YouTube can flag any video for any reason (see…

Dear Google: This is about as evil as you can get.

IMO it's not that black and white.

If google didn't agree to the ContentID system, Viacom would have most likely been able to strip them of their safe harbor status.

And that means the end of Youtube.

Yeah, something needs to be done, but having humans review takedowns just doesn't work at this scale, and if they aren't extremely over zealous about taking things down, they will be shut down.

Google is under the thumb of Viacom and other big media companies, and there really isn't anything they can do about it except agree or close up shop.

(Mind you, I think that there are definitely ways that Google can improve the situation, and that they should be pressured to do so, but it's not as simple as saying they are "evil")

Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#35

Post by pflats »

Orangeair wrote: post #23
pflats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this should not be happening. But your solution is unworkable. Upload priority is not proof of ownership or creation. If you upload one of Fox's movie trailers before they do, they should still definitely be able to take you down.

I'm not sure if I understand the problem here. So either Fox will want to remove the trailer manually, or they will want to remove it automatically with ContentID. If they remove it manuallly, then there's no problem since what I'm talking about only applies to the automated approach. If they want to remove it with ContentID, then presumably they have already uploaded the ContentID data, in which case their upload da…

A number of people are saying the same thing, but I'll just respond here.

>The only time this would be a problem is if the bootleg trailer were uploaded before they uploaded the ContentID data, and Fox wanted to then upload the ContentID data and have it removed automatically. I can't see why they would do this, however, since presumably they are reacting to the bootleg upload in this case, and can then simpply issue a manual takedown request.

Fox can issue a manual takedown, but they shouldn't need to. That's the entire point of the deal Youtube cut with the major studios that created ContentID. Fox uploads the videos they own, and then Youtube/ContentID finds all the infringers so that Fox doesn't have to pay a person to do it themselves.

This issue is obviously a special case where a clip from a video game, apparently sourced from Youtube, was excerpted in a network TV show. The network TV show - which is obviously protected - set off ContentID flags. Fox didn't set out to upload a Double Dribble clip to ContentID. This is an edge case.

The article then spuriously goes on to about the DMCA, but there's no evidence presented any DMCA takedown whatsoever. I don't even see any evidence of human intervention at all. If I had to guess, there's a setting in Fox's ContentID: If from Family Guy, block entirely.

It's unfortunate that this happened. It shouldn't have happened, but this is what inevitably happens when a technical solution (ContentID) is used to solve a social problem (piracy).

There should be an easy remedy for the video creator, and he is free to pursue copyright charges against Family Guy for using his video game clip in a TV show, if he thinks he has the rights to that clip. (I have no clue on that one.)

But this is a mountain being made of a molehill. Nobody's rights are being infringed. This is the deal you make when you sign on with Youtube: the big studios have the most power. They're only one player; if this deal irks you (and there are definitely legitimate reasons it would) there are plenty of other ways to host video.

Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#36

Post by delecti »

jkot wrote: post #10
pflats wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this should not be happening. But your solution is unworkable. Upload priority is not proof of ownership or creation. If you upload one of Fox's movie trailers before they do, they should still definitely be able to take you down.

Original clip was uploaded 8 years before Fox published their version.

Many TV shows are not on Youtube at all except as unauthorized uploads. Should Fox be unable to issue a takedown on an episode of the Simpsons that's been uploaded since before they uploaded a copy into ContentID?

Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#37

Post by nkrisc »

Ralfp wrote: post #8

SmarterEveryDay told a story in one of his videos about slow-mo clip of tatoo machine in action being ripped from one of his movies by the large press publisher, Bauer, and reuploaded on Bauer's Facebook page. Then Bauer moved on to claim DMCA on his original uploaded by him on his Facebook page: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6A1Lt0kvMA

That sort of thing happens all the time too, as he mentions. Only he has the reach and audience to rightly raise a stink about it. Most who have their content stolen in this manner really have no recourse.

The damage is done, the money is made, and the perpetrators can just say, "whoops" and absolve themselves of any wrongdoing while they take their ill-gotten gains to the bank.

Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#38

Post by jobigoud »

Esau wrote: post #21
just_observing wrote: post #2

Until there is a financial penalty for wrongful use of the DMCA this type of thing will continue. They use robots to create reports (maybe not in this case) because for them there is simply zero downside. That downside needs to exist.

The real solution would be to require a human to certify the infringement complaint - no more automated requests.

But that can't be left to the claimant. So Google should charge a fee for each complaint to cover the cost of the verification. But then you could make the company pay more simply by uploading thousands of infringing videos…

In any case a simple air date sanity check would have prevented this particular case.

Re: Fox 'uses' a gameplay video from YouTube, and removes the original with DMCA

#40

Post by illumin8 »

Klathmon wrote: post #34
illumin8 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear Google: This is about as evil as you can get.

IMO it's not that black and white. If google didn't agree to the ContentID system, Viacom would have most likely been able to strip them of their safe harbor status. And that means the end of Youtube. Yeah, something needs to be done, but having humans review takedowns just doesn't work at this scale, and if they aren't extremely over zealous about taking things down, they will be shut down. Google is under the thumb…

Even if it's true that they are under the thumb of the evil media companies, Google has billions in their war chest to fight legal battles like these. Why aren't they?

Apple seems willing to fight legal battles on moral grounds; why won't Google?

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