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The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

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Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#31

Post by bardworx »

dominotw wrote: post #29
bardworx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for everything else we use subcontractors. Fucking disgusting. That's a very strong sentiment, sprinkled with ignorance. I work in hospitality industry and seen the underbelly of food production and construction of QSR locations. I speak from experience. Sure, everyone wants contracted, union labor and hire Americans but no one is willing to pay for it. Subcontracting is "Fucking Disgusting"? Okay, how would yo…

I was talking about govt enforcing prevailing wage requirements that are already in place for H1B. This is one of the many loopholes that shady employers take advantage of.

With all due respect, government isn't able to enforce it since they just don't have enough folks to the job. It will fall on the business, which will include hiring more folks.

It's a never ending carousel of responsibility and cost increase (taxes or COGS - cost of goods sold).

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#32

Post by forgetsusername »

andmarios wrote: post #19
ryanmarsh wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose products? I don't see how your comment follows. Are you talking about $90k automobiles or groceries? GP was commenting on the expense of hiring American workers and wage competition. While there are some moral arguments for higher labor cost such as (ironically) workplace safety, the necessity for laborers to be able to afford the products they make is just nonsense.

Model 3 will go for about $30,000? Yes, I wouldn't expect workers at Ferrari to be able to afford one but this is the outlier.

>Model 3 will go for about $30,000?

I'll believe that when I see it. In fact, I bet it'll be closer to $50,000 than $30,000, which isn't exactly the "everyman's car".

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#33

Post by wrong_variable »

sbov wrote: post #20
wrong_variable wrote: post #8

This is why Americans cannot have nice things. Why did jobs move overseas ? If I am a business owner it makes absolutely no sense for me to pay 10x wages just for the privilege of hiring american workers. And if Laws do not change to take into account this differential more and more businesses will leave america.

You've got that backwards. There's all sorts of things that make absolutely no sense for business owners to do, so we have labor laws because business owners can't be trusted to not fuck everything up for society.

I do not think Slovenia has terrible labor laws - in fact they get more vacations days ( 33 ) then american workers !

I am tired of this meme "america has the best labor and environmental laws"

cost of things are higher in america due to inefficiencies - not because of better quality ( I know it might be hard for you to believe it ! )

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#34

Post by laluser »

pingec wrote: post #3

5$ per hour is practically minimum wage here in Slovenia except that you also get compulsory health insurance and pension contribution on top of that. And it's not extremely hard to get a job. I wonder why anyone would repeatedly fly to the US to work for that money. He was maybe getting or was promised something more. Also funny how they call us an "impoverished country". In my eyes an average Joe has much better qu…

I would assume that they were lied to or deceived about the hours that they had to work given the monthly wage that was quoted in the article. I'm also guessing that since most of these workers came on visas, they probably thought that they could seek better work once they were in the US.

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#35

Post by Chronic51 »

pjmorris wrote: post #11
adt2bt wrote: post #4

Wow, I did not expect to see this. I imagined Tesla, a poster boy for American innovation, would do its best to stay away from shady labor practices. To their credit, they claim to know nothing about how their contractors employ people.

How is knowing nothing about how their contractors employ people to Tesla's credit? I'd be gratified to see Musk's attention to detail include focus on details like these.

What else should we pardon the great God, Elon Musk, for? HN is full of fanboys like you.

If I said Elon Musk had nothing to do with the SpaceX landings, where is your "he can't pay attention to all detail" comment now?

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#36

Post by mastazi »

pingec wrote: post #3

5$ per hour is practically minimum wage here in Slovenia except that you also get compulsory health insurance and pension contribution on top of that. And it's not extremely hard to get a job. I wonder why anyone would repeatedly fly to the US to work for that money. He was maybe getting or was promised something more. Also funny how they call us an "impoverished country". In my eyes an average Joe has much better qu…

I agree regarding the ridiculous "impoverished country" thing. Slovenia's standard of living is certainly better than at least some parts of the United States. (I grew up in Italy and visited Slovenia several times).

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#37

Post by pingec »

bardworx wrote: post #28
pingec wrote: post #3

5$ per hour is practically minimum wage here in Slovenia except that you also get compulsory health insurance and pension contribution on top of that. And it's not extremely hard to get a job. I wonder why anyone would repeatedly fly to the US to work for that money. He was maybe getting or was promised something more. Also funny how they call us an "impoverished country". In my eyes an average Joe has much better qu…

> Also funny how they call us an "impoverished country". In my eyes an average Joe has much better quality of life in Slovenia than in the US :). I would say the problems start if you want to me more than the average Joe. Creating labels and positioning the individual who was hurt as a victim, coming from an "impoverished country" is more attractive then reporting a different ("positive") point of view. In defense of…

So how much higher is US minimum wage? Perhaps 100%? Would you agree with someone who earns twice as much as you to automatically call you impoverished?

I am no native speaker so I could be wrong, but I have looked up the word on Google. I believe that "impoverished" does imply context eg. [1] and is not simply a comparative word. It implies someone is really poor in a way that seriously affects his well-being, requires help from others etc. So when applied to a country, the context should of course matter.

[1] https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/impoverished

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#38

Post by dominotw »

bardworx wrote: post #31
dominotw wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking about govt enforcing prevailing wage requirements that are already in place for H1B. This is one of the many loopholes that shady employers take advantage of.

With all due respect, government isn't able to enforce it since they just don't have enough folks to the job. It will fall on the business, which will include hiring more folks. It's a never ending carousel of responsibility and cost increase (taxes or COGS - cost of goods sold).

>With all due respect, government isn't able to enforce it since they just don't have enough folks to the job.

H1B visa fees generates over a billion dollars. After spending in on various generic projects like biometric scanning , 911 responder the rest goes into treasury .

If the govt doesn't want to spend the money on enforcement then what can anyone do.

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#39

Post by patrickg_zill »

slicktux wrote: post #2

It is a rather complex problem and it needs to be solved, but I do not see how it's Tesla's fault. . . First off Tesla chose Eisenmann for the expansion and in return they subcontracted another company which then brought in the the workers for the illegal work. Given those circumstances I believe Eisenmann knew what was going on if not they would have never made such a low bid, because they would have risked paying o…

Do you think that Tesla, with all their engineering, job costing, materials science, and cost accounting talent, is unable to estimate the work needed to install the paint shop mentioned in the article?

There is no "magic pixie dust" that Eisenmann had, that they used to sprinkle over their materials that would make installation of the mechanical systems any less labor-intensive than their competitors.

Either Tesla knew (but chose wilful blindness) or Tesla is incompetent. Which is it?

Re: The Hidden Workforce Expanding Tesla's Factory

#40

Post by Bahamut »

pingec wrote: post #3

5$ per hour is practically minimum wage here in Slovenia except that you also get compulsory health insurance and pension contribution on top of that. And it's not extremely hard to get a job. I wonder why anyone would repeatedly fly to the US to work for that money. He was maybe getting or was promised something more. Also funny how they call us an "impoverished country". In my eyes an average Joe has much better qu…

They promised to match the compensation upon return to Slovenia it mentions in the article.
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