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Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

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31–40 of 79 posts

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#31
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obama was an "outsider". It's been a while since campaigns are not won by just money. My theory is the rich elites don't want to wield their power through governments anymore.

Obama raised more than any president in history from what I understand.

Also was the Big Data candidate: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/beware-the-big-dat...

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#32
post #24
post #21

This article is massive clickbait, but I'll comment anyway. Trump and Sanders are manifestations of a long-term trend that has been building at least since the 2008 Financial Crisis. People are dissatisfied with the options they are presented politically, and economic participation is at historically low levels. We have never been more prosperous, but at the same time that prosperity and wealth gains are not only not…

>Now the hip drinks are craft beers and fine wines, and a former factory worker forced to work menial part time jobs is looked down upon for drinking what he can afford, Bud lite and coke. Two related articles that may inform your discussions of this topic: http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali... http://www.stirjournal.com/2016/04/01/i-know-why-poor-whites... For context, and lest anyone think…

Those are both good articles that express much better than I the trends I am seeing. Particularly, in the Vox article, when it talks about G.W. Bush being a "dumb hick", you can see shades of this with Trump and his rhetoric today.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#33

To be fair, the "New Deal" regime was perceived to be failing circa 1970. For instance, the New Deal left racism intact in the South, there was the Vietnam war, the "Spirit of '68", high inflation, a huge expansion of regulations leading to more problems (for instance the 1974 model year of automobiles were awful because they had to satisfy stricter emission standards without a perfected catalytic converter, etc.) Th…

> "Boaty McBoatface" sealed the deal for Brexit because it symbolizes what "democracy" is about these days.

What does that even mean? I hope you don't honestly think that that poll had any effect on the brexit situation?

I tend to side with the bookies over listening to polls, and the bookies odds are on staying[1]. Apart from recent football mishaps they seem to be on the ball, they saw Khan coming a mile off for example.

1. http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-refe...

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#34
post #21

This article is massive clickbait, but I'll comment anyway. Trump and Sanders are manifestations of a long-term trend that has been building at least since the 2008 Financial Crisis. People are dissatisfied with the options they are presented politically, and economic participation is at historically low levels. We have never been more prosperous, but at the same time that prosperity and wealth gains are not only not…

> a long-term trend that has been building at least since the 2008 Financial Crisis

A good chunk of Trump voters didn't really benefit from the "90s boom" either. As a small army of dot-com millionaires were being minted, the Rust Belt continued to rust.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#35

1980-2000s: Reagan removes the Fairness Doctrine... TIL Rush Limbaugh will cause the end of the world. Hilarious.

Not the end of the world, but I do see him historically as the beginning of the end for the Republican Party. I was in college when I first heard of Rush Limbaugh. Before him, Republicans were these very stuffy folks like William Buckley Jr, who came to our campus and bored many to tears with highly-intellectual and logical arguments that were extremely challenging and generated a great deal of cognitive dissonance f…

In Limbaugh's lexicon, feminists turned into "feminazis" because advocating for equal rights for women was somehow equatable to a group advocating genocide.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#36
post #33

To be fair, the "New Deal" regime was perceived to be failing circa 1970. For instance, the New Deal left racism intact in the South, there was the Vietnam war, the "Spirit of '68", high inflation, a huge expansion of regulations leading to more problems (for instance the 1974 model year of automobiles were awful because they had to satisfy stricter emission standards without a perfected catalytic converter, etc.) Th…

> "Boaty McBoatface" sealed the deal for Brexit because it symbolizes what "democracy" is about these days. What does that even mean? I hope you don't honestly think that that poll had any effect on the brexit situation? I tend to side with the bookies over listening to polls, and the bookies odds are on staying[1]. Apart from recent football mishaps they seem to be on the ball, they saw Khan coming a mile off for ex…

I guess what he means is that more substantive issues work the same way as the boat naming thing -- they ask for your vote but then if they don't like the result they'll toss it.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#37
post #21

This article is massive clickbait, but I'll comment anyway. Trump and Sanders are manifestations of a long-term trend that has been building at least since the 2008 Financial Crisis. People are dissatisfied with the options they are presented politically, and economic participation is at historically low levels. We have never been more prosperous, but at the same time that prosperity and wealth gains are not only not…

That's the enigma in our 2 party election system. Republicans somehow convince "the other 99%" (more realistically, the middle/lower class) to vote AGAINST the economic policies that would benefit them the most (those coming from the Democrats).

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#38
post #20
post #2

I find somewhat hilarious that the supposed harbingers of this "collapse" are staunch members of said "oligarchy" (an elitist billionaire and a career politician). Revolutions are not as they once were...

Bernie is a career politician trying to do the right thing though.

Trying to do what his limited view of the right thing is. There's a lot of good stuff there, but a blanket "make everything better for everyone" ignores a lot of the nuanced problems of inequality.

For example: free healthcare and college — great, that's what a civilized country should have... but while that reduces an economic burden on the poor, it also keeps dollars in the pockets of the rich and our tax system is so broken that it doesn't necessarily mean you can recover that money.

While much less appealing, Clinton's criticisms of Sanders for giving free college to the rich seems fundamentally rooted in the reality that while yes, eventually al“l of these things should be public services — but in the immediacy it's not really helpful to help everyone out the same amount because that's keeping everyone in the same place.

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#39
post #20
post #2

I find somewhat hilarious that the supposed harbingers of this "collapse" are staunch members of said "oligarchy" (an elitist billionaire and a career politician). Revolutions are not as they once were...

Bernie is a career politician trying to do the right thing though.

He's an SOCIALIST!!! That is not the "right" thing ! It's the opposite!!! Hows Venezuela working out?

Re: Trump-Sanders Signal an Oligarchy on the Brink of Collapse

#40
post #21

This article is massive clickbait, but I'll comment anyway. Trump and Sanders are manifestations of a long-term trend that has been building at least since the 2008 Financial Crisis. People are dissatisfied with the options they are presented politically, and economic participation is at historically low levels. We have never been more prosperous, but at the same time that prosperity and wealth gains are not only not…

That's the enigma in our 2 party election system. Republicans somehow convince "the other 99%" (more realistically, the middle/lower class) to vote AGAINST the economic policies that would benefit them the most (those coming from the Democrats).

I suggest you read the two articles posted by chao- to get a better understanding as to why that may be.
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