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'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

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Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#31
post #21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this trope about us choosing to not throw people in jail but its just a consequence of needing real evidence against a person. Holder made some ckmment to the line of " if we had the evidence , people at the DOJ would be rushing to charge. Throwing a Wall St exec in jail is a career-making case" (edit: actual quote https://mobile.twitter.com/lauraolin/status/7279880874149847... ) The interests are totally ali…

How come we could find that evidence for all sorts of people, up to and including CEOs, after the S&L crisis? DOJ chose not to prosecute because of what? The way to do it is to pick a small fish, roll him, roll the guys he implicates, etc. Worked then, would have worked now.

> How come we could find that evidence for all sorts of people, up to and including CEOs, after the S&L crisis?

The perspective of Bill Black, senior regulator and litigator during the S&L crisis:

"So at the peak of the savings and loans crisis — again, one-seventieth the size of this crisis — of those 2,300 total FBI agents, 1,000 of them were working on just one industry, the savings and loan industry, to produce that incredible wave of success that we had. As recently as fiscal year 2007, there were only 120 FBI agents assigned to mortgage fraud, and that’s despite the fact that the FBI itself, in September 2004, warned that there was an epidemic of mortgage fraud — ‘epidemic’ was their word — and predicted that it would cause a financial crisis — ‘crisis’ was their word — unless it was stopped."

"And what people don’t understand about the criminal justice system is there are roughly a million people employed in it — and of course, millions incarcerated in it. But of the million employees, 2,300 do elite white-collar investigations. And of those 2,300, you have to contrast that to the number of industries in the United States, which is over 1,300."

http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/17/hundreds-of-wall-street-exe...

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#32
The title should really be changed to "Liberty Reserve" rather than the shameless government propaganda from Bloombag.

Bitcoin, lacking untracability, will eventually just decay into the same non-fungible identity-dependent status quo. But the lack of direct persecution like LR/egold/etc really highlight its one technological achievement.

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#33
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To pick one example, what did JPM do that involved "outright criminal fraud?" Give specific examples that a jury would convict for, keeping in mind that knowledge and intent must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. If I had to guess, what made this case easy was the fact that the guy left the country under circumstances where it could be inferred he know he was facilitating illegal transactions. That was the key ele…

Here is what made this guys case easy: "faced a life term before pleading guilty just days before a trial, striking a deal" I don't see a jury and it wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt either. He simply decided a plea deal was a more likely better outcome. So how is it that prosecutors can't conjure up a single case against a top exec, slap together a long list of charges and get a plea deal out? This is pretty…

The top exec is going to have better legal representation and a lot more media attention than your average accused murderer, never mind your average person on a drugs or assault charge.

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#34
post #11
post #5

>Prosecutors in New York said the company operated as “the financial hub for cyber criminals around the world.” Well fortunately for the cyber criminals, I have some great suggestions for alternative banking solutions. Plus! Your co-conspirators will almost definitely never face a day in jail. Think you will have to pay for expensive flights to Switzerland to open your account? Save some of that hard earned cash and…

To pick one example, what did JPM do that involved "outright criminal fraud?" Give specific examples that a jury would convict for, keeping in mind that knowledge and intent must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. If I had to guess, what made this case easy was the fact that the guy left the country under circumstances where it could be inferred he know he was facilitating illegal transactions. That was the key ele…

> what did JPM do that involved "outright criminal fraud?"

It's hard to know.

"One of the terms of the agreement was that the Wagner complaint would never see the light of day."

JPM initially offered $1B, saw the complaint against them, and then came up to $13B to have it squashed.

http://www.thenation.com/article/jamie-dimons-13-billion-sec...

In reference to Alayne Fleischmann, JPM Chase whistleblower:

In the days leading up to Holder's November 19th announcement of the settlement, the Justice Department had asked Fleischmann to meet with criminal investigators. They would interview her very soon, they said, between December 15th and Christmas.

But December came and went with no follow-up from the DOJ. She began to wonder: If she was the government's key witness, how was it possible that they were still pursuing a criminal case without talking to her? "My concern," she says, "was that they were not investigating."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-9-billion-witn...

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#35
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this trope about us choosing to not throw people in jail but its just a consequence of needing real evidence against a person. Holder made some ckmment to the line of " if we had the evidence , people at the DOJ would be rushing to charge. Throwing a Wall St exec in jail is a career-making case" (edit: actual quote https://mobile.twitter.com/lauraolin/status/7279880874149847... ) The interests are totally ali…

> The interests are totally aligned for the DOJ Are they? Eric Holder in 1999: "Prosecutors may consider the collateral consequences of a corporate criminal conviction in determining whether to charge the corporation with a criminal offense. Virtually every conviction of a corporation, like virtually every conviction of an individual, will have an impact on innocent third parties." [0] Eric Holder in 2013: "I am conc…

> every conviction of a corporation [...] will have an impact on innocent third parties"

Well there's your problem right there! Leave the corporations alone, along with most of the innocent shareholders and employees. Charge only the criminals as individuals, on up to the CEO. Jail, big fines, asset seizures.

That would clear things up very quickly.

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#36
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is what made this guys case easy: "faced a life term before pleading guilty just days before a trial, striking a deal" I don't see a jury and it wasn't proven beyond a reasonable doubt either. He simply decided a plea deal was a more likely better outcome. So how is it that prosecutors can't conjure up a single case against a top exec, slap together a long list of charges and get a plea deal out? This is pretty…

You can't bring a case if you don't think you can get a jury conviction. It's unethical. Prosecutors brought two Bear Stearns executives to trial near the beginning of the financial crisis and they were acquitted.

Of course it is unethical, as is piling on 20+ separate charges for a single act and then doing a plea deal for one.

That's the point: if you are being unethical already, does it hurt you to occasionally steamroll someone higher up the food chain in the same manner? That's just keeping the peace.

But to ignore vast abuses on the one side, and then list everything out of the UN charter when it comes to why you can't prosecute bank executives - come on..

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#38
post #17
post #5

>Prosecutors in New York said the company operated as “the financial hub for cyber criminals around the world.” Well fortunately for the cyber criminals, I have some great suggestions for alternative banking solutions. Plus! Your co-conspirators will almost definitely never face a day in jail. Think you will have to pay for expensive flights to Switzerland to open your account? Save some of that hard earned cash and…

There's this trope about us choosing to not throw people in jail but its just a consequence of needing real evidence against a person. Holder made some ckmment to the line of " if we had the evidence , people at the DOJ would be rushing to charge. Throwing a Wall St exec in jail is a career-making case" (edit: actual quote https://mobile.twitter.com/lauraolin/status/7279880874149847... ) The interests are totally ali…

fuller quote:

> "Those are career-making cases. Those cases are your ticket. The fight would have been over who got to try them. We just didn’t have the evidence." - Holder

Yeah, well, not prosecuting those cases and then going into the private sector to defend those same types of infamous corporations, is apparently a $4 million/yr. career ticket too.[1]

I'd say there'd be a certain glamor and having your name go in the history books by winning one of those cases, but clearly there are other "career-making" choices.

[1] http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/once-more-through-the...

P.S. Here's that Holder quote, for anyone that prefers text over a tweeted picture of text: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/05/09/the-man-who-ter...

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#39
Seems like nonsense witchhunt based on three numbers:

"The estimated amount of money laundered globally in one year is 2 - 5% of global GDP[1]"

"...government charges, Liberty Reserve processed 55 million separate financial transactions and laundered $6 billion in criminal proceeds. [2]" (I assume they just summed up total amount of transactions here, just because they can...)

"Budovsky admitted in his plea agreement to laundering more than $250 million in criminal proceeds. [3]"

So, $250 mil. is 4% of $6 bn. Which is within normal range of money laundering rates.

He's getting it probably because he wasn't licensed and wasn't giving up data, or something like that.

[1] https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/money-laundering/globalizatio... [2] http://abcnews.go.com/US/black-market-bank-accused-launderin... [3] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/founder-liberty-reserve-plead...

Re: 'Black Market Bank' Co-Founder Budovsky Sentenced to 20 Years

#40
Not only was this a nonsense witch hunt by prosecutors, but it was also a continuation of the war on cash. The government and the police do not like cash, they desperately want an all plastic transaction society, and have been using laws like civil procedure to attack the the cash-based system for many years. If you know nothing of civil forfeiture you owe it to yourself to read up on it. Simply put: If the police find a large amount of cash on you, they can take it, without a warrant, without conviction, and you will have to sue to get it back.
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