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TTIP Leaks

ttip-leaks.org

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Re: TTIP Leaks

#31

Post by rory096 »

Loic wrote: post #7
jychang wrote: post #4

Here's the preview for relevant section for the TTRIP with regards to the Internet: http://www.ttip-leaks.org/agamemnon/doc4.pdf The actual preview function seems to be broken, it only opens in a tiny iframe.

First page: "Nothing in this Chapter shall be construed to: ... (b) require a Party to compel any enterprise exclusively engaged in the broadcast or cable distribution of radio or television programming to make available its broadcast or cable facilities as a public telecommunications network." Which means, if your cable company is in monopoly somewhere, you cannot have any regulations to force sharing the network to…

>you cannot have any regulations to force sharing the network

>Nothing in this... shall... require a Party to compel

It says nothing about prohibiting regulations - that clause clearly just says no changes are required by the agreement. Way to start spreading the disinformation early.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#32

Post by nibs »

tommyman wrote: post #28
tazjin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony. I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

All politicians are narcissists. Trump is just more extroverted.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#33

Post by grecy »

tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

>This is a takeover attempt through the backdoor.

In case it wasn't already immensely obvious, the third world war has been underway for some time. This one isn't a war fought with guns and bombs, it's a war fought with information, deals and economies.

See China's massive economy and ownership of the US, the massive drop in oil price and what that's done to the world economy etc.

The citizens of the world wouldn't tolerate full-scale war - they'd vote out their leaders, so this is what we get when countries still want to dominate each other.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#34

Post by [deleted] »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #23
dexterdog wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that was OK because he had the most transparent administration ever as promised.

So, it is OK, to violate the rights of the people in a "transparent" way? Or are you just want to say, that it is an improvement that he at least kept one of his promises?

[deleted]

Re: TTIP Leaks

#35

Post by Chris2048 »

PythonicAlpha wrote: post #20
tazjin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

Before Obama was elected, they said the same thing about him and spying on US citizen. Edit: Seems, I said something right here -- hence the many downvotes! For those not knowing: Obama was much criticizing the spying when he still was Senator.

And shutting down GB. Which goes to say it doesn't matter if they seem "nice" or not, they can still let you down - the important thing is how tied to the establishment they are.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#36

Post by crdoconnor »

tommyman wrote: post #28
tazjin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump is probably our only chance at stopping this from becoming a reality.

I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony. I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

Trump has spoken out against the TTIP and TPP on a number of occasions. The media just doesn't like to talk about that aspect of his campaign:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/27/trade-policy...

Re: TTIP Leaks

#37

Post by tdkl »

tommyman wrote: post #9

So business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in the US side of negotiations (far more than any public interest groups). Then on the EU side, business groups and lobbyists for companies like IBM, Apple, Google et al. are deeply involved in negotiations to the detriment of all public groups. So this is really lots of big US companies negotiating with themselves on ho…

The corporations have hijacked the US government years ago it was always only the matter of time that they'll spread to EU.

What saddens me more is that the cucked EU will let them, forgetting all the achievements this continent has to offer.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#38

Post by Loic »

Loic wrote: post #7
jychang wrote: post #4

Here's the preview for relevant section for the TTRIP with regards to the Internet: http://www.ttip-leaks.org/agamemnon/doc4.pdf The actual preview function seems to be broken, it only opens in a tiny iframe.

First page: "Nothing in this Chapter shall be construed to: ... (b) require a Party to compel any enterprise exclusively engaged in the broadcast or cable distribution of radio or television programming to make available its broadcast or cable facilities as a public telecommunications network." Which means, if your cable company is in monopoly somewhere, you cannot have any regulations to force sharing the network to…

Reply to myself, effectively I was wrong, page 11:

"[EU: 4. Each Party shall ensure that a major supplier in its territory grants access to its essential facilities, which may include, inter alia, network elements, associated facilities, and ancillary services, to suppliers of electronic communications services on reasonable and non-discriminatory terms and conditions (including in relation to rates, technical standards, specifications, quality and maintenance).]"

You have quite some anti-competitive safeguards so, this is not that bad. The general tone here is pretty libertarian. Note that it only concerns the telecommunication services, this section is not about IP etc..

Re: TTIP Leaks

#39

Post by rkrzr »

This leak once again shows the importance of transparency in negotiations that will impact the lives of 800 million people (and the rest of the world indirectly).

If TTIP were ratified, it would be out of the control of any subsequently elected democratic governments as it would be part of international law.

Regardless what you think of TTIP it seems like the very least to ask is that a contract of such importance is discussed in the open where the public can have a voice in their own future.

Re: TTIP Leaks

#40

Post by tommyman »

crdoconnor wrote: post #36
tommyman wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly cannot tell if that is serious, a joke or some kind of irony. I'm not american so really not my business however narcissists do not make good social leaders. They make really terrible & dangerous social leaders.

Trump has spoken out against the TTIP and TPP on a number of occasions. The media just doesn't like to talk about that aspect of his campaign: http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/mar/27/trade-policy...

I'm not sure how much weight that has. Forget what people say to/in public settings and look at their current & previous actions.

If Trump were not in presidential race and putting on public face, how do you think he would treat TTiP based on his lifetime actions? I think he would support & exploit it every way he could, & i think thats what he will do in reality regardless of what he states publicly but that's just me.

Never trust what politicians say if all their actions run contrary.

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