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High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

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31–40 of 52 posts

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#31

I think the analogy here with Wall St is apples and oranges. In Wall st, the security traded is fungible. Here in the ad world, an ad view could be high quality or lower quality. It could be a bot or a human looking to buy something. I am an engineer who spent 12 years in the ad tech industry. This problem is especially acute in the online video ad side where dollars are exchanged based on views and CPMs, not someone…

Senior buy-side guy here. Viewability measurement has made a small dent in things, but for the most part, my personal view is that a huge percentage of display inventory (especially video) is very inflated. Pubs are chasing the much higher video CPMs without a care for quality, and buyers seem to be eating it up for some reason.

In my mind there's only two things that will really change this...better viewability/inventory auditing and attribution technology.

The larger, more reputable inventory sources (Google, FB, etc.) have a VERY vested interest in pushing quality and using whatever data they can bring to the table to build that trust, and then use that trust as a moat against their competition. Viewability providers likewise have an easy sell once they can improve the accuracy and reliability of their offerings (they have a long ways to go based on general sentiment in the industry). This will put pressure on other pubs to up their game or be left out. Why bother with a crappy news site that has 50%+ bot views that you're being billed for if FB or Google can prove that their traffic quality is much higher, better targeted, and infinitely higher reach?

On the buy side, the pressure will come in the form of attribution. Right now, display performance, video in particular, is a super murky area in terms of measuring success. What is the value of a view-through? Most advertisers couldn't tell you. And the ones that can probably have a very fuzzy picture of it that varies based on the attribution model they are using. However the space has improved dramatically, and at the end of the day, performance marketers will be able to do a much better job of telling whether traffic is crap or not based on whether it backs out. Bots don't buy things (although they do sometimes sign up for lead forms now). So if someone with a solid analytics stack sees a ton of impressions and no sales through their various attribution lenses, guess what? They'll stop buying those impressions. And the more big buyers that get smart about attribution and stop buying based on impression counts, the more pressure will be exerted on the sell-side to clean up their game.

So while the problem is "self-correcting" in the sense that there is big money with very vested interests in solving for this, unfortunately it is a big ship to turn and will take time.

Articles that talk crap about the ad industry rarely get into the nuances which is horribly infuriating and does a lot to give the industry a bad reputation. Like any space, there are bad players. Legit players in this industry want the bots and garbage out of the picture yesterday. They make our jobs harder, and reduce our performance.

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> , then people who didn't manage to get one would be out of luck No There are two reasons why people can't get a ticket: - Fans bought all the tickets, limited places so the only way you could get them is if someone gives up. Nothing wrong in reselling a ticket for the price you paid for them or less - Scalpers bought all the tickets. This is the main reason why today you can't get a ticket. Because they get on the…

A couple points: 1. It's unlikely that the price is set at $X, and there are precisely enough tickets to satisfy everyone who wants one at $X, but no more. Either the tickets won't sell out at $X, or there will be those who can't get tickets at $X. 2. If the original sellers knew how much demand there was, either they'd set the price to be as close to the balance point as possible, or not. If they did, then there sho…

About 1. you're right, also there's some amount of price segmentation in some concerts/tickets (closer to the stage, VIP area, meet&greet tickets)

2 and 3 might be solved if (first) ticket sellers would set auctions for ticket prices, not sure if it's possible legally though

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#33

I have experience doing the exact thing described in this article, but not at the level of sophistication described. I still made a decent amount of money from it. All of the exchanges (on the buy and sell side) know it's going on, and they generally don't try to stop it provided that it doesn't become news. A large number of well-known, venture-backed ad tech companies make money from this and they're not incentiviz…

Could you elaborate on the mechanics of what's going on? Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#34

I have experience doing the exact thing described in this article, but not at the level of sophistication described. I still made a decent amount of money from it. All of the exchanges (on the buy and sell side) know it's going on, and they generally don't try to stop it provided that it doesn't become news. A large number of well-known, venture-backed ad tech companies make money from this and they're not incentiviz…

Could you elaborate on the mechanics of what's going on? Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

The general idea is:

1. Get access to a DSP (either AppNexus, AOL, Doubleclick itself or a smaller DSP--there are literally dozens). DSP stands for demand-side platform, but in this case we're going to use them as a supply source.

2. At the same time, get access to a demand source, either AOL, Google, SpotXchange or someone similar. Someone that a reputable website publisher would use to fill ad spaces on their website.

Both steps one and two can be difficult to obtain, as every major player is on the lookout for fraudsters and arbitrageurs and doesn't more crappy, re-sold demand/supply on their platforms.

3. Place demand-source tags (AOL, Google, SpotXchange) in your DSP, so as soon as you buy an impression, you sell at almost the exact same time.

You make a profit when you amount your from demand-source tags (net costs + rev share) is higher than the cost of the ads you're buying (net costs + fees).

Even though the article is from 2014, there a still ton of people still doing this and making money, though the real money is running botnets and buying botnet traffic (which I know how to do but have never done).

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate on the mechanics of what's going on? Any insight is appreciated. Thanks.

The general idea is: 1. Get access to a DSP (either AppNexus, AOL, Doubleclick itself or a smaller DSP--there are literally dozens). DSP stands for demand-side platform, but in this case we're going to use them as a supply source. 2. At the same time, get access to a demand source, either AOL, Google, SpotXchange or someone similar. Someone that a reputable website publisher would use to fill ad spaces on their websi…

Thanks for your reply. The ad-exchange-related jargon is foreign to me, but your explanation makes sense. Basically, the arbitrageur buys ad space on a website from a demand source (which essentially means buying a demand source tag which secures the ad space on that website) and turns around and re-sells that space which he/she just bought on a DSP. So, money is made when the cost to buy the ad space from the demand source is less than it's re-sold for on the DSP.

Is that about right? What information does the demand source tag include - is that basically a placeholder indicating you bought space for an ad on a website? I assume the arbitrageur's edge comes from finding traffic that can be bought cheaply from the demand source and sold higher on the DSP?

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#36
post #24

This is from 2014, reposts should specify the year in the title

My bad there. I honestly didn't notice it till you just pointed it out!

I tried to know more about these "two guys in Chinatown" but in vain, I really would like to know more !

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#37
What really bothers me about articles like this is the complete lack of understanding of what advertising actually is.

All Advertising is arbitrage, exploiting a market inefficiency between the cost to reach an eyeball and the value of that eyeball.

Whats the difference between a high speed trader and a mortgage broker advertising? Whats the difference betweem a retailer advertising to sell a product they bought wholesale and a high frequency trader reselling an impression in real time?

Im not saying we are not all better served by closing this information gap and finding market efficiency, but lets not pretend that this is any more unscrupulous than any other business that exploits information asymmetry...and its definitely not the same as high frequency traders...especially because these ad buyer may never have gotten the impression if the arbitrager didnt bring it to a different exchange or support it with a different data set.

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#38

I think the analogy here with Wall St is apples and oranges. In Wall st, the security traded is fungible. Here in the ad world, an ad view could be high quality or lower quality. It could be a bot or a human looking to buy something. I am an engineer who spent 12 years in the ad tech industry. This problem is especially acute in the online video ad side where dollars are exchanged based on views and CPMs, not someone…

Senior buy-side guy here. Viewability measurement has made a small dent in things, but for the most part, my personal view is that a huge percentage of display inventory (especially video) is very inflated. Pubs are chasing the much higher video CPMs without a care for quality, and buyers seem to be eating it up for some reason. In my mind there's only two things that will really change this...better viewability/inve…

Totally agree with this is why especially FB is winning. Especially in Mobile where every user is pretty a logged in user on FB, Instagram, WhatsApp, etc. Plus non-inferred actual demo data. Even Google can't touch FB...

Everyone else who's peddling non-logged impressions with BlueKai data, good luck - first, Bluekai is only accruage 1/3 of the time. Second, majority of those are bot views.

Attribution like you describe is notoriously hard to measure. As views get to mobile, FB wins again since most apps use FB auth.

Re: High-Speed Ad Traders Profit by Arbitraging Your Eyeballs

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The general idea is: 1. Get access to a DSP (either AppNexus, AOL, Doubleclick itself or a smaller DSP--there are literally dozens). DSP stands for demand-side platform, but in this case we're going to use them as a supply source. 2. At the same time, get access to a demand source, either AOL, Google, SpotXchange or someone similar. Someone that a reputable website publisher would use to fill ad spaces on their websi…

Thanks for your reply. The ad-exchange-related jargon is foreign to me, but your explanation makes sense. Basically, the arbitrageur buys ad space on a website from a demand source (which essentially means buying a demand source tag which secures the ad space on that website) and turns around and re-sells that space which he/she just bought on a DSP. So, money is made when the cost to buy the ad space from the demand…

The information the demand source tag includes things such as domain name, ad size, among other things. Most of this information is publicly available--take a look at the AppNexus public wiki for more information.

This is generally something that only online ad professionals can pull off, but if you have enough of a bankroll, you can try it as well. It's a very saturated space and the amount of knowledge that goes into it is much more than what I'm able to include in a forum such as this. Good luck.

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