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Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

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Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#31

Post by dsp1234 »

riskable wrote: post #30
dsp1234 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different sources will give different answers to the same questions when interpreting licensing scenarios 1.) Containers are not available on desktop SKUs. So there is no licensing consideration for Windows 10. If they later add containers to Windows 10, then they'll release licensing rules at that time. 2.) If you are running a server OS for your desktop, then the licensing is pretty clear. Hyper-v VM containers fol…

Contrast that with the license considerations running Docker on Ubuntu: 1.) Containers are available on both desktops and servers because they're fundamentally the same OS (but with different sets of packages installed by default). 2.) As always, the server and desktop versions of Ubuntu available for unlimited use with zero licensing costs . Completely free. I'd also like to add that the "base" Windows Server contai…

1.) and 2.), ok. As pointed out, Windows Server containers don't have any additional licensing costs above and beyond the base host OS license. Presumably, if you already paid that cost, then you feel that it's reasonable to do so.

As for the size, I have the feeling that people that are going to run windows containers as a herd are going to opt for the nano image which is 793.3 MB. Still about 6.5 times larger than the ubuntu container image you mention, but 11.5 times smaller than the servercore container image. Particularly since the nano image is focused towards individual roles (IIS, dns, etc) which work well with the 1 task per container philosophy.

All in all, I'm not sure what the value is in comparing the two solutions (that isn't already covered in the Linux vs Windows threads). You can't run Linux containers on Windows, and you can't run Windows containers on Linux (without running an actual virtualized workload). So it seems pretty clear that you choose Windows if you have Windows servers to containerize, and Linux if you have Linux servers to containerize.

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#33

Post by gtirloni »

patates wrote: post #3

If this starts utilizing the "Ubuntu on Windows"[0], I think, with minor modifications, most of the images should already work; which is great. I can't wait to see how containerization (and tools built for orchestration of those) will evolve in the coming years to help dev/devops. [0]: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/03/30/ubuntu-on-windows-the...

If they keep improving the Linux subsystem in the Windows kernel and it starts offering a complete POSIX layer (i.e. the syscalls we expect in a Linux system), then one day the Linux-based Docker images could run unmodified.

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#34

Post by brazzledazzle »

CrLf wrote: post #25
illumin8 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 2003 is end of support life and you aren't receiving security patches unless you're paying Microsoft a huge amount of money for extended support. One might argue that it's insane to run a 13 year old OS that is not getting security updates any more at your business.

Windows 2003 is EOL because Microsoft wants to push customers to the latest version. Customers have been pushing back at this for a while now, but Microsoft (and other vendors) makes more money selling the new shiny than extending their products' lifecycle. In an ideal world, operating systems (server and desktop alike) would already be on a 5-year release cycle with just yearly incremental upgrades in between (as mu…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Microsoft introduced a lot of security features into the versions since 2003?

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#35

Post by tracker1 »

gtirloni wrote: post #33
patates wrote: post #3

If this starts utilizing the "Ubuntu on Windows"[0], I think, with minor modifications, most of the images should already work; which is great. I can't wait to see how containerization (and tools built for orchestration of those) will evolve in the coming years to help dev/devops. [0]: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/03/30/ubuntu-on-windows-the...

If they keep improving the Linux subsystem in the Windows kernel and it starts offering a complete POSIX layer (i.e. the syscalls we expect in a Linux system), then one day the Linux-based Docker images could run unmodified.

It's probable this preview is actually using the Linux Subsystem, which is fairly complete... And it makes sense.. it also makes a lot of sense in terms of the direction that .Net core has been taking, so that they can be deployed under Linux docker containers more easily.

Although I find a lot of the Azure services a bit too low-level, it's been very easy to build simpler interfaces on top of them, and get a lot done quickly. If this is anywhere near as nice on Azure as what the Joyent cloud's docker support looks like, it could be very interesting indeed.

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#36

Post by tracker1 »

newjersey wrote: post #11
patates wrote: post #3

If this starts utilizing the "Ubuntu on Windows"[0], I think, with minor modifications, most of the images should already work; which is great. I can't wait to see how containerization (and tools built for orchestration of those) will evolve in the coming years to help dev/devops. [0]: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/03/30/ubuntu-on-windows-the...

Paul Thurrott quoted a Microsoft person that Ubuntu on Windows is a client side thing. It may be possible to use it on Windows server but I believe that is not the meta. I would say it is easier to just spin up an Ubuntu instance than to use Ubuntu on Windows on the server. What are some use cases that you're thinking of? Am I missing something?

There are two parts... there's the Linux Subsystem for Windows, which is the Linux ABI... Ubuntu for Windows is all the Ubuntu userland running via LSW. It's probable that this Docker system works with LSW as-is.

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#37

Post by CyberDildonics »

duncans wrote: post #26
tammer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I'm involved in systems design & IT strategy for a very large institution. By and large we've found literally zero advantages imparted to end users by Windows 10, besides being forced to deply it by MS deciding to early end-of-life Win7. Some cool features in Server 2016, but nothing that will affect a user's workflow in the slightest.

I was a bit of a Windows 7 stalwart until recently. I upgraded my parents' Vista machine to Windows 7 ... very sluggish. Thought I really needed to get them an SSD at some point. Then I upgraded it to Windows 10 on a whim - incredibly snappy. No need for SSD yet.

You dodged a $40 bullet there.

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#38

Post by tammer »

duncans wrote: post #26
tammer wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. I'm involved in systems design & IT strategy for a very large institution. By and large we've found literally zero advantages imparted to end users by Windows 10, besides being forced to deply it by MS deciding to early end-of-life Win7. Some cool features in Server 2016, but nothing that will affect a user's workflow in the slightest.

I was a bit of a Windows 7 stalwart until recently. I upgraded my parents' Vista machine to Windows 7 ... very sluggish. Thought I really needed to get them an SSD at some point. Then I upgraded it to Windows 10 on a whim - incredibly snappy. No need for SSD yet.

Sure, snappier on older hardware is a plus. But we've got a 4 year replacement cycle, and a slight increase in snappiness isn't what I'd call a major upgrade.

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#39

Post by SteveLas »

justincormack wrote: post #15
terom wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about running Docker containers on desktop/laptop machines during development? It's a major part of the Docker usecase. Trying to keep track of Windows licensing compliance across multiple versions and deployment models is confusing enough as it is. Different sources will give different answers to the same questions when interpreting licensing scenarios, and you can never know unless you get audited (?)

Currently Windows containers are only available on Server not on desktop at all, hence there is no licensing information available for desktop.

Windows Hyper-V Containers are available on the Windows 10 Client, through the insiders program. This is intended for development scenarios. You can run your Windows Containers locally, building up your app/service, then deploying on servers running the Container feature. We're still early in the Windows container development efforts. http://aka.ms/DockerToolsForVS. The experience built for Linux containers will support Nano Server as well. In the current Windows insiders program, you can run Nano Server based containers locally, which you can develop .NET core apps against.

Re: Docker on Windows Server 2016 Technical Preview 5

#40

Post by SteveLas »

moogly wrote: post #32

Any word on this trickling down to Windows 10 too? It'd be unfortunate if you had to run VM-based docker on regular development machines IMO. Probably better to just run Windows Server on those machines in that case.

See above for Windows Container support (Nano Server) in the current insiders program. However, also note, this is very early, and the experience is a little rough as we stitch together all the moving parts that are coming together for what we believe will be a great local development experience of containerized apps, targeting Linux and Windows workloads.
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