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Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

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Re: Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

#31

Post by nrclark »

Aardwolf wrote: post #9

The English language seems to be missing some word that other languages have. In Dutch, "goochelen", performed by a "goochelaar" is doing tricks in a show, where you know it's all illusions but it's still very impressive. On the other hand, "toveren", done by a "tovenaar" would be doing something supernatural. Typically a "goochelaar" is somebody on a stage with a black top hat, while a "tovenaar" is more like an old…

In American English, a 'magician' is somebody who pulls rabbits out of hats, and a 'wizard' is somebody who does supernatural things. We don't have as good of a separation for goochelen/toveren, but most Americans would use 'magic tricks' for goochelen and just 'magic' for toveren.

Re: Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

#35

Post by AndyNemmity »

nrclark wrote: post #31
Aardwolf wrote: post #9

The English language seems to be missing some word that other languages have. In Dutch, "goochelen", performed by a "goochelaar" is doing tricks in a show, where you know it's all illusions but it's still very impressive. On the other hand, "toveren", done by a "tovenaar" would be doing something supernatural. Typically a "goochelaar" is somebody on a stage with a black top hat, while a "tovenaar" is more like an old…

In American English, a 'magician' is somebody who pulls rabbits out of hats, and a 'wizard' is somebody who does supernatural things. We don't have as good of a separation for goochelen/toveren, but most Americans would use 'magic tricks' for goochelen and just 'magic' for toveren.

Magicians also use the term wizard (as well as 100s of other terms)

Re: Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

#36

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

Aelinsaar wrote: post #10

It's nice to see that lobbying isn't just for large corporations, but vegas showmen can milk this ridiculous, broken system too. /s

Turns out that people, technically speaking, have a constitutional right to petition their government.

Re: Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

#37

Post by AndyNemmity »

grblovrflowerrr wrote: post #18
Aardwolf wrote: post #9

The English language seems to be missing some word that other languages have. In Dutch, "goochelen", performed by a "goochelaar" is doing tricks in a show, where you know it's all illusions but it's still very impressive. On the other hand, "toveren", done by a "tovenaar" would be doing something supernatural. Typically a "goochelaar" is somebody on a stage with a black top hat, while a "tovenaar" is more like an old…

On the other hand though "magician" unambiguously refers to a person that performs stage magic, in a modern context at least.

Magician contains in it stage magic, as well as street magic, parlor magic and other forms. It doesn't limit itself to the stage.

Re: Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

#38

Post by AndyNemmity »

neaden wrote: post #26
Aardwolf wrote: post #9

The English language seems to be missing some word that other languages have. In Dutch, "goochelen", performed by a "goochelaar" is doing tricks in a show, where you know it's all illusions but it's still very impressive. On the other hand, "toveren", done by a "tovenaar" would be doing something supernatural. Typically a "goochelaar" is somebody on a stage with a black top hat, while a "tovenaar" is more like an old…

We do, it's prestidigitation but no one really uses it.

Magicians use it, one of the more common ones.

Re: Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

#39

Post by AndyNemmity »

adamdonahue wrote: post #20
Aelinsaar wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of a strong lobby, especially from David Copperfield. As usual, just follow the money.

Reads like an advertisement for Copperfield. But in terms of advancing the art form and of classic prestidigitation, I can think of no better current practitioner than Ricky Jay.

There are so many people, it'd be difficult to compile a list and not leave anyone out. It's a rich field.

Re: Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

#40

Post by 99_00 »

Aardwolf wrote: post #9

The English language seems to be missing some word that other languages have. In Dutch, "goochelen", performed by a "goochelaar" is doing tricks in a show, where you know it's all illusions but it's still very impressive. On the other hand, "toveren", done by a "tovenaar" would be doing something supernatural. Typically a "goochelaar" is somebody on a stage with a black top hat, while a "tovenaar" is more like an old…

Historically, 'magicians' have intentionally cloaked their illusions in the supernatural, so it makes sense they claim to be masters of the supernatural. So the confusion is intentional.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Thurston...

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