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Sample workflow for LP digitization

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Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#31

Post by chiph »

lucideer wrote: post #6
minikites wrote: post #2

To those who would ask "why rip vinyl instead of getting the CD?", there are lots and lots of records that never made it to CD.

There are also other relatively compelling reasons around quality. And I'm not referring to the idea that vinyl is an inherently better quality format than CD, but rather that many[0] actual pressings have been mastered in higher quality in practice. [0] http://dr.loudness-war.info/

When I go to buy a title from bands that I like, but never got around to buying back when they first came out, I now shop at discogs.com instead of Amazon or Apple. That way I can specify what release it is (typically mid 90's or earlier) and not get a super-compressed recording.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#32

Post by SyneRyder »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #14
intopieces wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm firmly in the camp that mourns the victims of the loudness war, but it's important to keep in mind that "quality" is not something that can objectively measured, and every generation has its own perception of it. In MP3: The Meaning of a Format by Jonathan Sterne, he cites research done on "The MP3 generation" -- people who came of age when Napster was on the rise -- that found those listeners preferred the sound…

Eno was dead wrong about that. Outside of a marginal Kickstarter project - probably for a Japanese fanbase - I don't think anyone is going to pay money for a high-jitter 12-bit resolution retro CD player. Comparing that to the stylised imperfections of a human performer is unconvincing. I do think there's an interesting effect where as soon as a first-to-market technology becomes good enough to avoid being hopelessly…

As a counter example, there are bands whose aesthetic is defined by what Brian Eno described - taking the sounds of old hardware & exploiting their points of failure. Boards Of Canada uses 80s hardware, preserving/amplifying the sounds of grain & hiss in VHS tape and other analog mediums, and uses it not just as an aesthetic but exploring the theme of society on the brink of collapse as well:

Reach For The Dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jTg-q6Drt0 Album trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2lyYEUPat8

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#33

Post by coldtea »

ams6110 wrote: post #18
don_loemax wrote: post #10

As a club DJ who selects and plays in a digital format now, I like to leave clicks and pops in when digitizing my "white-labels" or vinyl-exclusive releases (some of the best or most coveted tunes are released on vinyl first in very small runs, months before they are available as downloads). I like to normalize then run the recording through Izotope's Ozone 7 on the "warm and transparent" preset to get it closer in l…

Why is this done? Tradition? Certainly it's an extra expense that releasing in pure digital format would not include -- and it's not like all the music is not mastered digitally now anyway -- nobody is mastering on tape and cutting and splicing....

>Why is this done? Tradition? Certainly it's an extra expense that releasing in pure digital format would not include -- and it's not like all the music is not mastered digitally now anyway -- nobody is mastering on tape and cutting and splicing....

Actually lots of artists master on tape.

What most don't do is track and mix on tape -- but there are some that do that too.

(and mastering doesn't involve "cutting" and "splicing" much -- that would be mixing).

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#34

Post by coldtea »

Animats wrote: post #29

Of course, the real way to do this is to optically scan the record and simulate a stylus tracking it. The Library of Congress does this.[1] They've even recovered records broken into pieces, by scanning the pieces and reassembling the 3D model. [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/how-a-...

>the real way to do this

What's "real" about it? The overwhelming majority of people doing it who are not Libraries do it with a needle.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#35

Post by gfody »

Animats wrote: post #29

Of course, the real way to do this is to optically scan the record and simulate a stylus tracking it. The Library of Congress does this.[1] They've even recovered records broken into pieces, by scanning the pieces and reassembling the 3D model. [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/how-a-...

There doesn't seem to be any free or commercial software that converts high res scans of vinyl records to high quality digital audio. I remember this post from 2002 http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~springer/DigitalNeedle/index.html where a guy posts his results with this approach, but the quality is bad and he doesn't provide source code.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#36

Post by bpp »

don_loemax wrote: post #10

As a club DJ who selects and plays in a digital format now, I like to leave clicks and pops in when digitizing my "white-labels" or vinyl-exclusive releases (some of the best or most coveted tunes are released on vinyl first in very small runs, months before they are available as downloads). I like to normalize then run the recording through Izotope's Ozone 7 on the "warm and transparent" preset to get it closer in l…

Thanks for the tips - I rip vinyl for the same purpose.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#37

Post by [deleted] »

rfrank wrote: post #21
ams6110 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this done? Tradition? Certainly it's an extra expense that releasing in pure digital format would not include -- and it's not like all the music is not mastered digitally now anyway -- nobody is mastering on tape and cutting and splicing....

White labels and dubplates in general hearken back to the sound system culture that originated in Jamaica [1]. Mostly a means of getting the newest songs fastest; record something in the morning, press your dubplate that afternoon, play it out that night. The unofficial nature of the recordings makes it easier to hop around copyright stuff and not clear samples, etc. The song Alicia by Mala jumps to mind [2], I don't…

[deleted]

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#38

Post by jdietrich »

ams6110 wrote: post #18
don_loemax wrote: post #10

As a club DJ who selects and plays in a digital format now, I like to leave clicks and pops in when digitizing my "white-labels" or vinyl-exclusive releases (some of the best or most coveted tunes are released on vinyl first in very small runs, months before they are available as downloads). I like to normalize then run the recording through Izotope's Ozone 7 on the "warm and transparent" preset to get it closer in l…

Why is this done? Tradition? Certainly it's an extra expense that releasing in pure digital format would not include -- and it's not like all the music is not mastered digitally now anyway -- nobody is mastering on tape and cutting and splicing....

Dance music is typically released in a stepped fashion - a handful of DJs will receive exclusive dubs, followed by a small release on white label, followed by a general release.

This is a mutually beneficial arrangement for DJs and producers. DJs can increase their audience by playing music that can't be heard elsewhere; This exclusivity provides promotion for a track before general release.

Radio DJs have a habit of speaking over the middle of an exclusive track, to prevent it from being ripped and used by other DJs. Exclusive dubs often mention the DJ by name in the lyrics, a tradition originating in the Jamaican sound system culture.

Vinyl releases are also much more profitable, which can be very significant for niche music with a relatively small market. A typical track download nets the record label 50-70p, but a 12" white label can net £3 to £4. If you only expect to sell a few thousand copies in total, a limited vinyl run can make a big difference to the bottom line.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#39

Post by rfrank »

ams6110 wrote: post #24
rfrank wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White labels and dubplates in general hearken back to the sound system culture that originated in Jamaica [1]. Mostly a means of getting the newest songs fastest; record something in the morning, press your dubplate that afternoon, play it out that night. The unofficial nature of the recordings makes it easier to hop around copyright stuff and not clear samples, etc. The song Alicia by Mala jumps to mind [2], I don't…

Again, I don't see how pressing a physical recording is making anything faster. It's a step that's entirely unnecessary if you distribute digitally. It must be more of a tradition, or a desire to mix on turntables, or possibly a way to do a limited/controlled release that is not easy to redistribute widely as a digital media file would be?

Combo of all of those, really. Particularly the exclusivity bit, songs that get pressed like that generally aren't things people are trying to share. For instance, dubplates use acetate and not vinyl, and are really only good for about 50 plays. Lots of exclusives becomes the reason to check out your party vs the one the people a few blocks down are throwing.

Re: Sample workflow for LP digitization

#40

Post by innocentoldguy »

don_loemax wrote: post #10

As a club DJ who selects and plays in a digital format now, I like to leave clicks and pops in when digitizing my "white-labels" or vinyl-exclusive releases (some of the best or most coveted tunes are released on vinyl first in very small runs, months before they are available as downloads). I like to normalize then run the recording through Izotope's Ozone 7 on the "warm and transparent" preset to get it closer in l…

Your use case makes sense to me. Prior to reading your post, I was always of the opinion that ripping vinyl kills the warmth that vinyl offers in the first place, so why do it?
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