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Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

nytimes.com

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Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#31

Post by workusername »

elthran wrote: post #15
meric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin is quite the authoritarian, yet I don't think you can compare Erdogan to Putin. They are not even on the same level.

I agree they're not on the same level - but I think this is more Putin have a superior intellect and grasp of subtlety and Realpolitik than Erdogan. I'm fully expecting Putin to pull the old President/Prime Minister switcheroo again in 2024, after winning the 2018 election.

Putin subtle? Like the switcheroo? And a second one would be subtle? The guy's an outright buffoon.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#32

Post by yxhuvud »

DavidHm wrote: post #21
elthran wrote: post #4

I wonder how much more of this sort of thing has to go on before the media begins widespread use of the word "dictator" for Erdogan? Illegal criticism, seizing opposition media, violent oppression of minorities, potential election shenanigans - I can imagine next he'll appoint himself President for Life and rename the it the People's Republic of Turkey. I feel the same thing applies to Putin, but we'll never see the…

Turkey is considered a US ally. We don't use the term dictators for our allies. (see Saudi Arabia for example).

The correct term for the leader of Saudi Arabia is 'king', though, so it is quite understandable that dictator is not used there.

Which of course doesn't make the situation any better.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#33

Post by aquadrop »

elthran wrote: post #15
meric wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin is quite the authoritarian, yet I don't think you can compare Erdogan to Putin. They are not even on the same level.

I agree they're not on the same level - but I think this is more Putin have a superior intellect and grasp of subtlety and Realpolitik than Erdogan. I'm fully expecting Putin to pull the old President/Prime Minister switcheroo again in 2024, after winning the 2018 election.

I'm not sure about that, in 2030 he'll be 75 years old, he might have different perspective at this age.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#34

Post by sydneysider »

matt4077 wrote: post #26
thirdsun wrote: post #5

As a german I really have to wonder what's wrong with our government if we continue to cozy up to Erdogan's turkey. I really don't think having turkey as a migration buffer is worth paying the price of making the european union look like a club you can buy your way into regardless of ethics. What's the use of values if we're starting to ignore them so easily?

It just goes to show that politics is really really hard. You never get to hear about the decisions that are easy. If it's reported in the media, it's almost by definition an issue with multiple viable options (or, in this case, only bad choices). Having seen a bit of German politics from the inside, I can assure you that everyone grapples with choices like this. I've witnessed ministers of finance changing their opi…

Blaming this on 'racism' is a poor argument. Maybe it has something to do with the incompatible cultures and values.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#35

Post by gokhan »

These days, most forms of criticism of Erdogan is forbidden in Turkey. During the past 14 years, he and his party turned a barely standing democracy with imperfect rules into a semi-dictatorian state with no rules. Police force fully belongs to him and you can derive many similarities with Hitler's early 1930's. There are no mainstream press left daring to oppose him, no prosecutor can question him for his unconstitutional statements and acts, and his feedback loop consists of garbage people who's only income source is saying whatever pleases him.

As a result, the guy really lives in a bubble where everything he says almost immediately happens, but only in Turkey. This does not stop him to order doing something about that stupid foreign press, and all his advisors think is to ask the German govt to suppress free press in Germany.

Expect more from him in the coming months since he's on a ride to the top of idiocy.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#36

Post by wobbleblob »

elthran wrote: post #4

I wonder how much more of this sort of thing has to go on before the media begins widespread use of the word "dictator" for Erdogan? Illegal criticism, seizing opposition media, violent oppression of minorities, potential election shenanigans - I can imagine next he'll appoint himself President for Life and rename the it the People's Republic of Turkey. I feel the same thing applies to Putin, but we'll never see the…

He is the Turkish Putin.

I find it worrying. Turkey seemed to be such a success until a few years ago. A booming, increasingly western economy, seeming stability. Somehow you expect dictatorship to come with a revolution, but it seems it can slowly creep up on you. All it seems to take is a strong, popular leader.

People think they like strong, popular leaders, but I find them a threat to democracy. They tend to think they're doing everyone, the country, a favor by latching on to power and never letting go again.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#37

Post by kuschku »

Mithaldu wrote: post #16

Something i haven't seen mentioned much is that the tv station this show is on, is a public broadcasting station paid for with taxes via the german government. While it turns out there are laws in place that ensure the government cannot influence program, it is fairly easy to understand how Erdogan could take this combination of being mocked by a state tv station wrongly, and get the impression that contacting the am…

There is quite a difference: The station isn’t paid for by taxes from the government, but the station has the right to collect its own taxes, ensuring it can act independently.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#38

Post by bildung »

seivan wrote: post #30

How can you be a leader of a country and not be aware of the Streisand effect or whatever it's called in Turkey related to whoever try to pull those stunts last time.

Why should he care? The twittersphere are not the people voting vor him. His posturing against the satire got him some nice articles in the local press (probably with the added spin that it's all about Europe belittling Turkey), job done.

Re: Erdogan’s Attempt to Suppress German Satire Has the Opposite Effect

#40

Post by newjersey »

venomsnake wrote: post #7
thirdsun wrote: post #5

As a german I really have to wonder what's wrong with our government if we continue to cozy up to Erdogan's turkey. I really don't think having turkey as a migration buffer is worth paying the price of making the european union look like a club you can buy your way into regardless of ethics. What's the use of values if we're starting to ignore them so easily?

Turkey cannot be really migration buffer. But for Germans - i think that the internalized guilt that was whipped into the German society after WWII just prevents them from thinking - EU and his people/interests first, Germany first or criticizing foreigners. We all will pay dearly for supporting "religious freedom" Erdogan against his army in the early 00s

I can't disagree with you at all. The rise of religion in government does us no good. However, we have to face reality as it exists. There'd be someone else if not him. Turkish people are clearly religious Muslims. While it would be nice to have a secular army in control of Turkey, we know the situation wouldn't be viable long term. I for one am glad when politicians take roads sustainably in the long term rather than a band aid until the next election.

As much as we all hate the growth of Islam, we can't really do much about it. If we suppress the Islamic populists for too long, we risk creating more caliphates around the world.

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