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Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 204 posts

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#31

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

I'd encourage you to stop 'self-censoring'. What matters a few karma points, if you have something important to say? You'll find that often an initial knee-jerk downvoting can turn around half a day later, as more considerate users join the conversation.

I disagree. I have sometimes faced reply comments that are quite unreasonable and at times meant solely as insult. It's very rare here, but still a risk.

But what's far worse is that the moderation of Hacker News functions with very little transparency. Even just Googling for the moderator `dang` turns up a lot of angry rants on other blogs and in other sections of the internet, full of people who feel wronged by black-box and one-sided moderation.

It can be quite psychologically upsetting to post a comment, fall victim to group-think downvoting, try to add clarity or try to defend yourself against unreasonable comments, and then find yourself on the non-negotiable end of a black-box moderation action.

If it was just meaningless karma downvotes, few would care. It's the actually hurtful responses and, there's no other way to put it, mean-spirited moderation activity that give pause.

And I'm speaking as someone with a lot of anti-authoritarian tendencies. I'm not shy at all about speaking my mind and I struggle with finding a way to feign respect for authority apparatuses that are not legitimate, like HN moderation. If I feel this apprehension and backlash, I can only imagine that more timid readers feel it to a much more damaging degree.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#32

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

Other topics to avoid Anything negative about: Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, Ruby, Rails, Github, Vim and Javascript.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#33

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure how to solve the problem though, other than trying to teach people to treat the down vote button more respectfully.

IMO there shouldn't be a down vote button at all, and to be honest I can't see its purpose. If a comment is trolling or being aggressive then you should flag it, so where is there room for the down vote button?

It becomes quite intuitive to just use it for what you consider an "invalid opinion" regardless of how much you try to teach people otherwise, because it's so convenient to use and people are less rational when they are angered.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#34

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

I'd encourage you to stop 'self-censoring'. What matters a few karma points, if you have something important to say? You'll find that often an initial knee-jerk downvoting can turn around half a day later, as more considerate users join the conversation.

I've had that happen to me before, I've built up enough karma over my time here to stop caring as much, and sometimes it comes back, other times not so much. It usually depends, but even though the karma system may have it's flaws it at least keeps us from turning into the abyss that other communities have turned into.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#35

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

I'd encourage you to stop 'self-censoring'. What matters a few karma points, if you have something important to say? You'll find that often an initial knee-jerk downvoting can turn around half a day later, as more considerate users join the conversation.

I'm sure this is an emotional reaction to receiving overwhelming negative feedback, not a calculated one. I'd direct my comment toward the site rather than OP.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#36

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

I'd encourage you to stop 'self-censoring'. What matters a few karma points, if you have something important to say? You'll find that often an initial knee-jerk downvoting can turn around half a day later, as more considerate users join the conversation.

"Me too" comments are usually not useful, but I'm putting this one here so that GP can see JoeAltmaier isn't the only one who thinks this.

Post away. Sometimes, I have been known to rethink my position (not a bad thing) when I get downvotes. Sometimes I even change my mind when good arguments surface. I learn this way.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#37
The surveillance state makes our system more brittle by entrenching a status quo that is creating accelerating income and wealth inequality, and destroying institutions that enable upward social and income mobility. We're headed for a rupture, and the response appears to be more armor, weapons, and security personnel.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#38

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

I think this is where the "community" metaphor breaks down; HN is not the equivalent of a civilization where a thousand flowers need to bloom to preserve the intellectual integrity of society; it is the equivalent of the club you shouldn't join if they'd have you as a member.

The problem is not that people self-segregate into (multiple) communities where there is a common creed as to what ideas are worthy of discussion; the problem is when there is a suffocating universal consensus where there are ideas that have no home. There is no (useful) better, more open-minded community; there are just places where you can say things you shouldn't say on HN and vice versa.

There's nothing wrong with circlej-rks as long as every jerk has a circle.

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#39

HN is the most intelligent and open minded online community of this size that I know online. I have deep respect for you guys and girls and your opinions are always enlightening and thought provoking. I really feel much smarter because I have access to all these very valid points of view that you are surfacing. But even this community suffers from this strange phenomena of "group think" which leads me to go into this…

[deleted]

Re: Mass surveillance silences minority opinions, according to study

#40

This suggests we should implement mass surveillance of law enforcement personnel. If, as many people assert, the bad behavior of law enforcement is the actions of a minority, then mass surveillance of law enforcement should provide a chilling effect on that minority and result in fewer examples of these abuses. Somehow I don't think that argument would win the day though.

Honestly I think the reverse panopticon is both a good idea and generally politically palatable. Deep down almost everyone is a good-government liberal if it doesn't break their arm or pick their pocket.
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