Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
31–40 of 52 posts
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#32I wonder if the original email was more about this point in the "Pledge": > That I shall not talk or act in ways that could make minority groups feel bullied, harassed, intimidated, stalked, stereotyped, or belittled; examples of minority groups include women, people of color, lesbians, gays, and people who are disabled, bisexual, transsexual, asexual, intersex, transgender, and gender-variant; It specifically talks…
> I wonder why the pledge explicitly talks about minority groups? Why not just say that there should be no bullying, harassment, etc. period. I think those groups are explicitly listed because not everyone believes all of those groups really exist. Similarly, some people believe that belonging to some of those groups is a choice. Further, I'd imagine that all of those groups will be minorities at LambdaConf, but not…
I may not be very articulate but race/ethnicity/origin/gender/nationality/sex/sexual-orientation/ice-cream-flavor-preferences (I do not list everything and may even be confused myself for some of them, hope I can get explained which and why if I am wrong) are fundamentally part of yourself as a human being. I mean that being challenged to change them is obviously not a process prone to success (if even technically possible for some).
However, I cringe a lot when religion is packed in the same bag. That's a matter of opinion and all opinions are in my book welcome to be challenged. You can be wrong about ideas/opinions. Being religious only means that, right now, you believe something. And people have shown again and again that they can change their mind, be converted to a new one or even just reject the current one without choosing an other one.
Protecting religions as being a defining part of the human being is not only wrong but so dangerous too for freedom of though. I dislike that so much when their are put on the same plan as really person(human-being?)-defining things that people have fought for in order to be acknowledged as equal-rights humans. Especially when so many religious systems refuse to recognize those equal rights.
P.S. : I also do think that political affiliation is exactly on the same level as religion. They are just a choice and it's problematic (even damageable) equating them with the rest in CoCs.
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#33Do tech conferences honestly need codes of conduct? Feels a bit like living in a home - some folks hate the idea of Home Owner Associations with their explicit rules, others can't imagine living next to people without everything spelled out.
> Do tech conferences honestly need codes of conduct? Yes. "Common sense" and "common decency" aren't universal, even in situations that seem to fall under obvious and well-established social norms. It's better to have these things written out so that no one can claim they didn't know any better. No one is asking the attendees to take this conduct into the rest of their lives -- it's just a way to behave that everyon…
No, it's not better. One cannot substitute common decency with a document, and it's a fool's errand to try.
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do tech conferences honestly need codes of conduct? Yes. "Common sense" and "common decency" aren't universal, even in situations that seem to fall under obvious and well-established social norms. It's better to have these things written out so that no one can claim they didn't know any better. No one is asking the attendees to take this conduct into the rest of their lives -- it's just a way to behave that everyon…
> It's better to have these things written out so that no one can claim they didn't know any better. No, it's not better. One cannot substitute common decency with a document, and it's a fool's errand to try.
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#35I applaud LambdaConf's decision, compared to Strange Loop which caved to bullying. Neoreaction is not a powerful movement. Attacking neoreaction is not punching up.
Punching up or down doesn't matter in this case, as long as someone's punching. Fascism is not something which should be left to fester.
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#36There is definetly a camp of developers (not outsiders) who have denigrated StrongLoops decision and praised LambdaConf. These are engineers who may work with members of groups targeted by this fascists' views, engineers who may review a Black / Latino applicant for a job, contribute to the overall work environment for them.
To my point, what I see is a co-optation of the meaning of the world tolerance. When there is an fascist antagonist on minority groups, it is easier for these "tolerant" everyday individuals to say hey fascists should matter too at tech conferences. Because thats what tolerant means, even the fascists and racists matter, no? Things that appear logically equivalent are not always the best things to do. Part of me thinks this is part of antebellum United States' original sin; the wealthy white class using race and slavery to spur hate-mongering from working-middle class whites, who saw Black people as their problem and not class inequity. This is the "vicious lie" that MLK talked about and continues to manifest today as Tim Wise deals with: www.timwise.org/2015/04/how-racism-explains-americas-class-divide-and-culture-of-economic-cruelty-an-excerpt-from-under-the-affluence/
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#37I am always amazed at how religion is such a hot and polarizing topic in the US. Political debates in the US presidential election are baffling at best and often utterly cringe-worthy. I don't even understand why someone would ask if a tech conference, a topic that has zero to do with religion, is 'for them too' because they're Christian? Is proselytizing part of the conference's aim? no? Then why even ask? Is it non…
Contex wise: This is because some many US events now have codes of conduct that play into identity politics.
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I wonder why the pledge explicitly talks about minority groups? Why not just say that there should be no bullying, harassment, etc. period. I think those groups are explicitly listed because not everyone believes all of those groups really exist. Similarly, some people believe that belonging to some of those groups is a choice. Further, I'd imagine that all of those groups will be minorities at LambdaConf, but not…
I really do think that there is a very important distinction to be made between what intrinsically makes people who they are and what is just their opinion, a matter of choice. I may not be very articulate but race/ethnicity/origin/gender/nationality/sex/sexual-orientation/ice-cream-flavor-preferences (I do not list everything and may even be confused myself for some of them, hope I can get explained which and why if…
I really don't think people actually choose their opinions. Humans' opinions are affected by a wide variety of different conscious and unconscious stimuli, such as culture, socio-economic background, and even genetics. Humans are illogical, and will likely post-hoc rationalize their biases rather than logically thinking up an ideology.
For example, you may be religious because you sincerely believe in it, or because you just happen to grow up in a religious family. Or you may adhere to a political affiliation because you sincerely think it was a good idea...or because you live in an area that shares that same political affiliation and associate with friends with that political affiliation. Or because some celebrity endorses a political affiliation and so you follow that celebrity and so on and so forth.
Assuming humans are fully rational beings is problematic (and damageable), and it's better to provide protections than to take them away just because your own bias makes it seem okay to do so.
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I wonder why the pledge explicitly talks about minority groups? Why not just say that there should be no bullying, harassment, etc. period. I think those groups are explicitly listed because not everyone believes all of those groups really exist. Similarly, some people believe that belonging to some of those groups is a choice. Further, I'd imagine that all of those groups will be minorities at LambdaConf, but not…
I really do think that there is a very important distinction to be made between what intrinsically makes people who they are and what is just their opinion, a matter of choice. I may not be very articulate but race/ethnicity/origin/gender/nationality/sex/sexual-orientation/ice-cream-flavor-preferences (I do not list everything and may even be confused myself for some of them, hope I can get explained which and why if…
Religion is a strange word that means different things to different people. It's worth mentioning that whether God actually exists is not a matter of opinion. If everyone was omniscient, agnosticism would be moot. We'd all be atheists or deists.
With that in mind, the religious don't see God's existence as a matter of choice any more than someone's ethnicity is a matter of choice. In fact, many sooner believe they'd change their ethnicity before their relationship with their God (Galatians 3:28).
That being said, healthy challenge and discussion are good things.
Re: Is LambdaConf for Conservative Christians, Too?
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Contex wise: This is because some many US events now have codes of conduct that play into identity politics.
Religion is not part of your identity, it's at best an opinion that you are (potentially temporary) holding now. And this is wrong for CoCs to include religions, or political views, on the same level as identity defining traits like gender and race.
Also it's disingenuous that you say religion is not a part of a person's identity, when in fact there are people to whom it's an important part of their identity as a person. Sure you can argue relision is a choice - and I can grant you that - but then it's the same with non-gender-dysphoric transpeople;they just chose a different gender than their biological sex for an arbitrary reason.