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We only hire the trendiest

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Re: We only hire the trendiest

#31

Post by marcus_holmes »

pingec wrote: post #9

Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? I have been a .NET dev for 6 years because that was my job. But I don`t believe that makes me useless on any other stack. In fact lately I desire to work on something that feels exciting and fresh again but sometimes I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon and it`s not so easy to land a job or contract outside .Net land.

I think most startups I've seen are using some form of POSIX back end. I've been advising corporate techs with only .NET experience to start learning some bash at least.

I moved from commercial .NET coding to startup-land a few years ago, and there's definitely a learning curve. I had to ditch Windows on my personal PC and start using Linux at home to really get the hang of it. YMMV.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#32

Post by jasode »

pingec wrote: post #9

Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? I have been a .NET dev for 6 years because that was my job. But I don`t believe that makes me useless on any other stack. In fact lately I desire to work on something that feels exciting and fresh again but sometimes I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon and it`s not so easy to land a job or contract outside .Net land.

>Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? ... I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon

I don't have evidence of a wide random sampling of "trendy" employers but based on anecdotes[1][2], I think it is.

Many trendy companies (a.k.a. "hot startups") overwhelmingly favor a Linux + open source stack. If the hiring managers at these companies see a resume with just ".NET/Winforms/WPF/ASP.NET", they perceive a negative signal.

Yes, writing a loop to display a list in ASP.NET should be Turing equivalent to writing a loop in Node.js/Golang but people don't think purely on equivalences of computer science concepts. They also think about "culture" and a resume that's exclusively ".NET" looks "corporate" and "enterprisey" instead of "cutting edge" and "hip".

My advice to potential job seekers who only have "MS .NET platform" as a skill: start a github profile with projects using Linux/Node/Golang/etc to help counteract the adverse cultural selection bias.

[1]https://blog.expensify.com/2011/03/25/ceo-friday-why-we-dont...

[2]"And the .NET developers are mostly enterprise folks who don’t like working in rough-and-tumble startup world. Remember, I worked at Visual Studio magazine and had a front-row seat." from http://scobleizer.com/myspaces-death-spiral-due-to-bets-on-l...

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#33

Post by staticelf »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #31
pingec wrote: post #9

Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? I have been a .NET dev for 6 years because that was my job. But I don`t believe that makes me useless on any other stack. In fact lately I desire to work on something that feels exciting and fresh again but sometimes I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon and it`s not so easy to land a job or contract outside .Net land.

I think most startups I've seen are using some form of POSIX back end. I've been advising corporate techs with only .NET experience to start learning some bash at least. I moved from commercial .NET coding to startup-land a few years ago, and there's definitely a learning curve. I had to ditch Windows on my personal PC and start using Linux at home to really get the hang of it. YMMV.

Funny to read, because I have the reverse experience. I have for long been using Linux and classic open source tooling for my work and am now moving to use Windows and .NET.

I have immense issues understanding the platform and how everything work. For example, scheduling jobs is something I still don't fully understand.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#34

Post by marcus_holmes »

bluetomcat wrote: post #7

The abundance and heterogeneity of various technology stacks, frameworks, methodologies and whatnot fuels this hiring mess. Twenty-five years ago, nearly everyone who called himself a programmer knew C and an interviewer could judge the relative strength of two candidates by really examining their programming skills and not some trendy keywords.

I started programming professionally about 25 years ago, and it was exactly the same. Windows was rolling out into the office spaces, replacing old mainframe line-of-business apps.

MS Visual Basic was the new hot thing on the block. Delphi was the same thing but in Pascal. There were a bunch of database-with-front-ends like FoxPro and Access that you could build a windows program with pretty easily.

Actually, C occupied pretty much the same space as it does now: there's some people using it for serious stuff at serious companies, but it's not RAD so no-one else is interested.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#35

Post by bdcravens »

Then don't work at those companies. It seems there's always .NET jobs - I get recruiters all the time bugging me about those gigs, but I get nothing on any of the other languages I've worked with (and the .NET work I've done is a very small % of my career). Perhaps it's a location thing - Houston is definitely a .NET town.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#36

Post by anton_gogolev »

dkopi wrote: post #14
pingec wrote: post #9

Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? I have been a .NET dev for 6 years because that was my job. But I don`t believe that makes me useless on any other stack. In fact lately I desire to work on something that feels exciting and fresh again but sometimes I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon and it`s not so easy to land a job or contract outside .Net land.

I wouldn't say it's an "Anti .NET" bias, as much as it's an "anti too many years in the same exact thing" bias. 1. Choose a different language for your next side project. 2. Step in the door with C#, try to help out on projects or change positions inside the company. 3. Attend hackathons, contribute to opensource projects. A good programmer can quickly feel comfortable in any programming language. Recruiters feel mor…

> "anti too many years in the same exact thing"

As an opposite to what, exactly?

> A good programmer can quickly feel comfortable in any programming language.

This is not true. It takes a not-insignificant amount of time to just learn to write idiomatic code, let alone making oneself familiar with all the quirks and idiosyncrasies of libraries and frameworks.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#37

Post by vetinari »

UK-AL wrote: post #24
pingec wrote: post #9

Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? I have been a .NET dev for 6 years because that was my job. But I don`t believe that makes me useless on any other stack. In fact lately I desire to work on something that feels exciting and fresh again but sometimes I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon and it`s not so easy to land a job or contract outside .Net land.

It's simple ignorance. People think .NET = old, not innovative, corporate In reality its a fast moving stack, that's constantly innovating.

It's not a simple ignorance.

The wast majority of people, who claim .NET experience can launch Visual Studio, then some wizards to generate skeleton of the app and then fill something to have a CRUD "solution".

They spoil it for the folks, who are truly experienced. The claims in the CVs are so maximized (Dunning-Kruger at the extreme), that it's simpler to just ignore .NET experience.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#38

Post by mrweasel »

pingec wrote: post #9

Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? I have been a .NET dev for 6 years because that was my job. But I don`t believe that makes me useless on any other stack. In fact lately I desire to work on something that feels exciting and fresh again but sometimes I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon and it`s not so easy to land a job or contract outside .Net land.

I think that depends on where you live really. In the area I'm in being a .NET developer is clearly an advantage.

One reason I, and others like me have looked down on .NET developers, is that a large number of them aren't any good. I've meet brilliant .NET developer, some of the most talented developers I know are .NET developers, but the crappiest developers I know are .NET developers as well.

Some developers are completely ignorant in respect to computers, the Internet, algorithms and new technology in general, and they are almost exclusively working on Windows and by extension .NET. These are developers that can make code work, but take Visual Studio away from them and they cease to be developers.

It's by no means fair, because as I said, some of the best developers I know are .NET developers. It's just that I've never see anyone working on Linux/Unix be completely ignorant other languages, tools and platforms.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#39

Post by mbrock »

I sometimes think there's a built in pomposity in the whole attitude of hiring, looking for someone "good enough to qualify." Instead, I like to think of it as, we are looking for someone to help us, someone who has different experience and knowledge, someone who could tell us how we can improve. Then instead of this adversarial situation of selecting a new ingroup member, it's a solicitation for assistance with a built in humility.

Re: We only hire the trendiest

#40

Post by anton_gogolev »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #31
pingec wrote: post #9

Is the anti windows/.NET bias really that common? I have been a .NET dev for 6 years because that was my job. But I don`t believe that makes me useless on any other stack. In fact lately I desire to work on something that feels exciting and fresh again but sometimes I feel like .NET devs are looked down upon and it`s not so easy to land a job or contract outside .Net land.

I think most startups I've seen are using some form of POSIX back end. I've been advising corporate techs with only .NET experience to start learning some bash at least. I moved from commercial .NET coding to startup-land a few years ago, and there's definitely a learning curve. I had to ditch Windows on my personal PC and start using Linux at home to really get the hang of it. YMMV.

> I think most startups I've seen are using some form of POSIX back end.

Typical hip startups use "tools" (frameworks, libraries, etc.) that abstract underlying platform to such an obscene degree, that it doesn't really matter, if the platform is POSIX-compatible or not.

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