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Schools Out, Forever

avandamiri.com

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Re: Schools Out, Forever

#31

Post by makmanalp »

robryan wrote: post #19
fnid2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Universities are there to get you a job. In fact, it's part of their marketing strategy. In technical curricula, nearly every decision they make is based around predictions of future job growth. It is a very real problem right now, because technical jobs are changing so fast. The universities don't know what to teach kids. Corporations aren't hiring people to write Fortran or C++. They hire them to write .NET and Jav…

This is true, otherwise why would the first thing taught be Java? (what happens at my uni). The ordering that follows seems to much more promote churning out a Java/C++ programmer who knows how to use and create detailed UML documentation. You don't do any assembly or VHDL type close to the metal stuff unless your doing a 4 year degree that incorporates EE classes. There is a class called computer systems architectur…

Not all unis are like that. We start with functional programming and programming essentials in general with Scheme (lisp derivative), and then do some object oriented stuff with java, and then some systems programming with C. None of the classes are related to the specific language, the language is a tool to illustrate the concepts. These are all in the first and second years. After that, there are more advanced classes in each topic. Maybe some schools are just doing it wrong?

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#32

Post by jff »

umjames wrote: post #4
swombat wrote: post #2

Yet another helpful individual mistaking university for some kind of career training centre... Universities are not there to get you a career, a high paying job, etc. I'll grant you that they've been mis-represented to many people, often by greedy people who wanted to boost the ranks of students to make money (another good reason why universities shouldn't be for-profit). There are many purposes served by universitie…

I'd say universities are to blame. My alma mater's main selling point is its co-op program. Instead of 4 years of straight classes, you have 5 years total split up as follows: - freshman year as normal - the next 3 years are spent with 6 month classes/6 months co-op with some local company - senior year as normal My alma mater is not alone in this kind of marketing though. How many commercials do you see (especially…

My university does a similar thing, however while they sell the co-op pretty hard, they don't advertise on afternoon TV. I look at the co-op as an opportunity to get out, enjoy a break from classes while making money and gaining experience. I've spent 9 months of my co-op time at a national lab, doing research. As of now, it looks like I could go back there as soon as I've graduated. However, while it's very nice to have a job waiting, I'd say it's equally important that I had the opportunity to get out and do real research, get paid, and get published.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#33

Post by mmt »

youngian wrote: post #30
mmt wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response illustrates an all too common failure of formal education: holding formalities in greater regard than practical matters. Language is usage is language. Not only was clarity not hurt, the point of the title I took away was a reference to the Alice Cooper song lyric, which as spoken (sung) language, contains no apostrophe.

I disagree. Clarity was hurt. This title suggests multiple schools "out", which doesn't make a lot of sense (did the schools band together to out their gay friend? Or a corrupt politician?). Yes, obviously I can figure out what he meant. But there's a jarring half-second of confusion that disrupts my thinking, slows down my reading, and distracts me from what is being communicated. I'm not rabid about grammar - the r…

But there's a jarring half-second of confusion that disrupts my thinking, slows down my reading, and distracts me from what is being communicated.

I would suggest that it's your literalism (or, perhaps, if not grammar rabies, then at least excessive focus on it) that's the issue here, not the presence or absence of a punctuation mark in a transliteration of a song lyric.

The author may be guilty of not being conservative in what he sends, but your guilt, in not being liberal in what you accept, is, to me, much clearer.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#34

Post by Adrock »

lionhearted wrote: post #20
edave wrote: post #14

Thank's Avand, your article is really hip and all. I'd really like to agree with it, and then go about back behind the school yard and smoke a cigarette and tell The Man go to hell. However, I really can't do that. Let's start with your high school experience. Going to a prep school in Boston means you (most likely, not assuredly) come from a privileged background. I went to a high school prep school too, and like yo…

> Thank's Avand, your article is really hip and all. I'd really like to agree with it, and then go about back behind the school yard and smoke a cigarette and tell The Man go to hell. I almost didn't read the post because you made it sound like mindless rebellion. The tone of discussion was a bit higher than you made it out to be. > Here's what it really comes down to- you seem to be doing well marching to your own s…

> In all seriousness - can you cut this out? You've got valid and good points, but adding snark/sarcasm doesn't help them.

Maybe I have a tin-ear, but the "keep it up" seemed genuine.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#35

Post by kowen »

If I were given a chance to do it over, I think I'd beg to be allowed to unschool for k-12, and then go to university. University was where it started getting relevant/interesting (to me, anyway).

I'm not knocking education in itself, just... so much time wasted while the teacher organizes things, disciplines people, and they managed to take interesting subjects and make them utterly boring.

There are probably great schools out there, but the 7 different schools I went to were not very inspiring.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#36

Post by whyleyc »

tsally wrote: post #10
schoolsin wrote: post #7

I went to a school that taught me, among other things, how to use apostrophes, how to make web sites with readable text, how to avoid phrases like "kitchen of education", and how to make a poll that shows results when I vote instead of thanking me for voting. If you're some sort of mindless soulless fuck who equates everything in life to "will this help me get a job?", then skip school. It won't teach you what you wa…

This is the type of post that is contributing to the decline of HN. It's mean spirited and inflamatory, veiled by a thin layer of actual argument. You critize the author for a lack of credentials, yet claim that no one knows better than you how to create a brand online? Let's see your credentials then, because apparently you are God's gift to earth. Quite frankly no one had the credentials to write a post like yours.…

The post from Avand was largely hyperbole and headline-grabbing, and your reponse here is little better either. Calling-out other posters as "a joke" does nothing to foster rational debate.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#37

Post by robryan »

makmanalp wrote: post #31
robryan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, otherwise why would the first thing taught be Java? (what happens at my uni). The ordering that follows seems to much more promote churning out a Java/C++ programmer who knows how to use and create detailed UML documentation. You don't do any assembly or VHDL type close to the metal stuff unless your doing a 4 year degree that incorporates EE classes. There is a class called computer systems architectur…

Not all unis are like that. We start with functional programming and programming essentials in general with Scheme (lisp derivative), and then do some object oriented stuff with java, and then some systems programming with C. None of the classes are related to the specific language, the language is a tool to illustrate the concepts. These are all in the first and second years. After that, there are more advanced clas…

I'd say so, we get a bit of lisp in AI and some C systems programming later which are done right, with more focus on the concept than the language. It's just the initial Java classes which place a lot of emphasis on the language rather than the concepts.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#38

Post by marshallp »

abeppu wrote: post #27

You know what you can do as a university student in a technical discipline which can't really be done for free searching the internet? Participate in real research, guided and mentored by real-life scientists. Do lab-based classes. Ask questions of your professors. Have deep conversations with your fellow students and with your lecturers during office hours. Yeah, if you only want to try to absorb the material in a t…

"""Ask questions of your professors. Have deep conversations with your fellow students and with your lecturers during office hours."""

You can do that on the internet, on sites like this and a million others, and probably in a better way - you have hundreds of people poring over and finding obvious flaws in your thinking rather than the handful you can have in a physical space.

"""Participate in real research, guided and mentored by real-life scientists. Do lab-based classes."""

That can easily be done outside of a university, at an industrial or government lab, the entire "non-research" infrastructure built around university labs is unnecessary for that.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#39

Post by hoggle »

I am a dropout myself and I am doing OK for the moment but I still would propose to question your own readyness to being so judgemental. I think of education being something highly individual and complex (e.g. I regard my time at university very inspiring and influential). Everybody should be able to 'roll their own' in order to achieve ones respective goals - which fortunately these days is possible for most of us. It is great that you found your very own hack to tackle the issue but try to stay open to other approaches too - most importantly try not to make too many generalizations. I know that can be hard but it could perhaps result in real inner peace.

Re: Schools Out, Forever

#40

Post by fnid2 »

ericd wrote: post #28
fnid2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Havard, in this case, is a metaphor for "traditional universities"

I realize, could you point to an article about university admissions dropping? I haven't happened across anything saying that universities are in trouble, for any reason other than their endowments getting decimated due to the financial crisis.

Simple as a google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=%2B%22declining%20enrollment%...
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