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The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

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Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#31

Post by ickwabe »

chongli wrote: post #16
jessegreathouse wrote: post #5

If the government wins any of these court battles, it's only a matter of time until one-way encryption is outlawed. It follows logically that if criminals/terrorists can't use iPhones to securely communicate, then they'll just move on to the next convenient encryption app. The government will continue to order companies to break their one-way encryption until the government realizes they're playing musical chairs and…

FBI Director James Comey already went before Congress and was rejected. I'd say the possibility of him succeeding in the future is even lower, given the way this case has played out. He effectively tried to make an end-run around the legislature by going through the courts with an extremely old law. The powers in Congress did not appreciate this at all and had a lot of very pointed questions for him at his last heari…

What are we to make of these sorts of comments from Obama and Feinstein? It seems like there is strong backing by certain political interests to make it impossible for the average phone user to encrypt their own devices in such a way that the providers cannot access certain data. This dove-tails nicely with what some consider a war on general computing...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-obama-idU...

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/262658-feinstein-vow...

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#32

Post by ibejoeb »

axihack wrote: post #21

Can anyone point me to where WhatsApp app is actually confirming they are implementing E2E encryption and how? I couldn't find anything on the oficial web/blog, the single mention on security is this FAQ[1] which is about server/device encryption. A friend also told me E2E is only available for US users but unfortunatelly I can't confirm this because of the lack of communication from WhatsApp. [1] https://www.whatsap…

I've never seen any official confirmation, but Wired reported that it had been enabled between Android devices: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/whatsapp-encrypted-messaging/. The implementations is reportedly based on TextSecure/Signal. Moxie says WhatsApp "is implementing" which is certainly distinct from "has implemented."

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#33

Post by shmerl »

jessegreathouse wrote: post #5

If the government wins any of these court battles, it's only a matter of time until one-way encryption is outlawed. It follows logically that if criminals/terrorists can't use iPhones to securely communicate, then they'll just move on to the next convenient encryption app. The government will continue to order companies to break their one-way encryption until the government realizes they're playing musical chairs and…

It won't be outlawed as long as public will be against it. It will be a political suicide for opponents of encryption. But only if public will be against it. Time will tell.

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#34

Post by chongli »

ickwabe wrote: post #31
chongli wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FBI Director James Comey already went before Congress and was rejected. I'd say the possibility of him succeeding in the future is even lower, given the way this case has played out. He effectively tried to make an end-run around the legislature by going through the courts with an extremely old law. The powers in Congress did not appreciate this at all and had a lot of very pointed questions for him at his last heari…

What are we to make of these sorts of comments from Obama and Feinstein? It seems like there is strong backing by certain political interests to make it impossible for the average phone user to encrypt their own devices in such a way that the providers cannot access certain data. This dove-tails nicely with what some consider a war on general computing... http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-encryption-obama-idU..…

The Obama Administration simply will not throw their own (the FBI) under the bus. Fortunately for us the Democrats do not control congress so Obama is unlikely to get his wish here.

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#35

Post by 15155 »

danieltillett wrote: post #23
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone have any insights into why the commonly used guns argument is not good enough for encryption? If we ban guns(encryption), only the criminals will have it. The only thing I can think of is that the majority of people who advocate for encryption are anti-gun, and don't want to give strength to that argument?

I have never understood why the USA anti-gun lobby doesn't go after ammunition rather than guns. Just ban ammunition and a gun just becomes a not so dangerous club.

Ah yes, "Let's use semantics to infringe on unalienable rights, that'll show those Framers!"

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#36

Post by 15155 »

CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #20
thavalai wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it means that the encryption cannot be reverse-engineered: http://help.penzu.com/pro/what-is-one-way-encryption/

> One way encryption is a mathematical function that takes a variable-length input string and converts it into a fixed-length binary sequence. So, a hash function and not encryption? Got it. Sarcasm aside, we really need to start using the correct terms. https://paragonie.com/blog/2015/08/you-wouldnt-base64-a-pass... Cryptography ||\ | \`- Hash Functions | `- Secret-Key Cryptography | |\ | \`- Secret-Key Encryption |…

"One-way encryption" is a terrible term - they mean "encryption that the encryptor cannot decrypt upon demand."

So, asymmetric cryptography.

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#37

Post by axihack »

ibejoeb wrote: post #32
axihack wrote: post #21

Can anyone point me to where WhatsApp app is actually confirming they are implementing E2E encryption and how? I couldn't find anything on the oficial web/blog, the single mention on security is this FAQ[1] which is about server/device encryption. A friend also told me E2E is only available for US users but unfortunatelly I can't confirm this because of the lack of communication from WhatsApp. [1] https://www.whatsap…

I've never seen any official confirmation, but Wired reported that it had been enabled between Android devices: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/whatsapp-encrypted-messaging/ . The implementations is reportedly based on TextSecure/Signal. Moxie says WhatsApp "is implementing" which is certainly distinct from "has implemented."

Agree, "is implementing" could last forever or have a very limited scope by design. I think I am going to assume there is no E2E encryption until a proper confirmation from WhatsApp.

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#38

Post by [deleted] »

ibejoeb wrote: post #32
axihack wrote: post #21

Can anyone point me to where WhatsApp app is actually confirming they are implementing E2E encryption and how? I couldn't find anything on the oficial web/blog, the single mention on security is this FAQ[1] which is about server/device encryption. A friend also told me E2E is only available for US users but unfortunatelly I can't confirm this because of the lack of communication from WhatsApp. [1] https://www.whatsap…

I've never seen any official confirmation, but Wired reported that it had been enabled between Android devices: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/whatsapp-encrypted-messaging/ . The implementations is reportedly based on TextSecure/Signal. Moxie says WhatsApp "is implementing" which is certainly distinct from "has implemented."

[deleted]

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#39

Post by danieltillett »

ibejoeb wrote: post #30
danieltillett wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood why the USA anti-gun lobby doesn't go after ammunition rather than guns. Just ban ammunition and a gun just becomes a not so dangerous club.

At the level of simple firearms, arms are arms. You're going to have to argue 2A regardless.

I don't understand this response. Why wouldn't banning the sale of ammunition and ammunition components not work to stop most of the bad problems of guns? A gun is still arms even if it does not have ammunition so this avoids the constitutional problems, but it makes them much safer.

I should add that I am not arguing for the banning of ammunition, just why has this not been used as an attack vector on the gun lobby?

Re: The Next Front in the New Crypto Wars: WhatsApp

#40

Post by danieltillett »

15155 wrote: post #35
danieltillett wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never understood why the USA anti-gun lobby doesn't go after ammunition rather than guns. Just ban ammunition and a gun just becomes a not so dangerous club.

Ah yes, "Let's use semantics to infringe on unalienable rights, that'll show those Framers!"

Well unless the anti-gun lobby can change the constitution they need to find some way around it. I was not suggesting that this should be done, just asking why not?
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