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Please scan my towel

jerrygamblin.com

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Re: Please scan my towel

#31

Post by coldpie »

roel_v wrote: post #12

RFID is one of those things that seem cool until you start playing with it and then it turns out that the only uses for it are really boring. Like, you can't use it to locate stuff because the range is too short; you can't rely on stuff to have chips (food, or clothes or whatever) and it's a major time sink if you'd have to start tagging stuff yourself; it's cumbersome to install readers everywhere and not being able…

I think you could basically switch "RFID" with "smart home device" and this comment would be just as accurate. It seems finding a problem to solve is much harder than finding a solution.

Re: Please scan my towel

#32

Post by imgabe »

roel_v wrote: post #12

RFID is one of those things that seem cool until you start playing with it and then it turns out that the only uses for it are really boring. Like, you can't use it to locate stuff because the range is too short; you can't rely on stuff to have chips (food, or clothes or whatever) and it's a major time sink if you'd have to start tagging stuff yourself; it's cumbersome to install readers everywhere and not being able…

Couldn't you just put a push button switch there with the same effect? Something like the large square handicap accessible switches for powered doors in public buildings.

Re: Please scan my towel

#33

Post by roel_v »

imgabe wrote: post #32
roel_v wrote: post #12

RFID is one of those things that seem cool until you start playing with it and then it turns out that the only uses for it are really boring. Like, you can't use it to locate stuff because the range is too short; you can't rely on stuff to have chips (food, or clothes or whatever) and it's a major time sink if you'd have to start tagging stuff yourself; it's cumbersome to install readers everywhere and not being able…

Couldn't you just put a push button switch there with the same effect? Something like the large square handicap accessible switches for powered doors in public buildings.

The rfid tag also acts as an authentication/authorization token. Not a very good one, but not worse than a key either.

Re: Please scan my towel

#34

Post by roel_v »

coldpie wrote: post #31
roel_v wrote: post #12

RFID is one of those things that seem cool until you start playing with it and then it turns out that the only uses for it are really boring. Like, you can't use it to locate stuff because the range is too short; you can't rely on stuff to have chips (food, or clothes or whatever) and it's a major time sink if you'd have to start tagging stuff yourself; it's cumbersome to install readers everywhere and not being able…

I think you could basically switch "RFID" with "smart home device" and this comment would be just as accurate. It seems finding a problem to solve is much harder than finding a solution.

Yeah, that's right. I have a house full of such stuff but when push comes to shove, most of it is 'meh'.

Re: Please scan my towel

#35

Post by mitoyarzun »

glastra wrote: post #24
Rafert wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIFARE#Security_of_MIFARE_Clas... seems to be a good start.

This reminds me of the ubiquity of insecure MIFARE Classic chips. My previous workplace (an international organization that shall remain anonymous) had vending machines where you could "buy" an RFID key that acted sort of like a "wallet". You could refill it by putting it inside the vending machine and then inserting coins, or you could use it to buy goods from the machines. It used MIFARE Classic and was trivial to…

In Santiago, Chile, the public transportation system uses Mifare Classic cards, and few apps that (ilegally) refilled the cards appeared a while ago.

The solution given by the government was to block the cards that were used with fraudulent refills on a weekly basis, but there is always the possibility of changing the ID or purchasing blank cards.

Of course the system was chosen years after the vulnerabilities were discovered, too.

My guess is that the only way to stop this is to replace all the scanners, which will be far more expensive than losing a few thousand paying customers per day.

Re: Please scan my towel

#36

Post by novaleaf »

Sidnicious wrote: post #20
roel_v wrote: post #12

RFID is one of those things that seem cool until you start playing with it and then it turns out that the only uses for it are really boring. Like, you can't use it to locate stuff because the range is too short; you can't rely on stuff to have chips (food, or clothes or whatever) and it's a major time sink if you'd have to start tagging stuff yourself; it's cumbersome to install readers everywhere and not being able…

One interesting use: https://vimeo.com/157990864 This library lets visitors rearrange the books organically (if you pull out multiple books on a topic, you're encouraged to put them back on the shelf together instead of finding their old homes). The books are tracked with RFID so that they remain easy to find individually.

I'm a frequent library user, and this may be fine for certain types of collections (where you look for very specific books) but is terrible for general use, as you are removing the ability to search by topic.

Re: Please scan my towel

#37

Post by LeifCarrotson »

dsr_ wrote: post #21
roel_v wrote: post #12

RFID is one of those things that seem cool until you start playing with it and then it turns out that the only uses for it are really boring. Like, you can't use it to locate stuff because the range is too short; you can't rely on stuff to have chips (food, or clothes or whatever) and it's a major time sink if you'd have to start tagging stuff yourself; it's cumbersome to install readers everywhere and not being able…

If you carry a proximity card in your rear pocket, that's pretty much the same thing except that there's no surgery and it's easy to swap out or discard when no longer useful. Source: the door-opening sensors at my college, many years ago, were all located at the right height for a key in the back pocket to activate them. I referred to it as the "buttprint identification system".

But it is of critical importance to have the sensors located at the right height!

At my school, I had to jump up quite a bit (and I am 6' tall) to get them to read the card.

In many installations of both hardware and software, the actual usage of the system is quite different from what was imagined by the designers. Prox card installers imagine people holding up cards on lanyards. They mandate it not be carried in a wallet, because "the magnetic fields of a credit card can erase it" and it might break if it's bent. In real life, only freshmen carry lanyards, credit cards use high-coercivity stripes and aren't damaged by the prox readers or cards, and wallets with IDs and credit cards are stiff enough.

Talk to your users about how they use your product and what they need! You will learn something!

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