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Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

vox.com

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Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#31
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's not much content in this article. However, if people tend to use a drug beyond its prescription, with very bad results, that's still a reason to change things. I mean, ipads do not have a big red button with "rm -r /" listed. I don't see why the drug industry should be exempt from designing constraints that prevent user error.

You can't even imagine the pain and suffering the constraints currently in place cause legitimate users of pain killers. Doctors are so scared of the DEA they're doing crazy things. Someone very close to me had a ruptured disc, killing the nerves in her spine, so much that just standing would cause pain that made her black out or vomit. And even though she'd never been prescribed anything for pain, she had to hover o…

I dont know the details of her situation, but I think chronic pain management goes something like this:

* patient such as your friend has excruciating pain, requiring the heaviest of the narcotics (say oxycodone/oxymorphone, instead of a "mere" hydrocodone that you'd get for wisdom teeth or something ).

* these narcotics are so incredibly dangerous that they must be taken exactly as prescribed for the following reasons. 1) Patients have a temptation to take an extra one (or snort one) to achieve a euphoric and addicting "high" that can be irresistible once its experienced. 2) In some cases taking even one or two extra pills can kill the patient. 3) Patients have incentive to Not take them because some pills can fetch up to $40 EACH on the black market. 4) not taking them exactly as planned can cause a tolerance buildup or reduction, which can stymie the physician's efforts to find the safest minimal and effective dose for continuous pain management.

* To combat all 4 of these factors, pain management specialists enter into "contracts" with their patients that they will treat their pain, if and only if, they agree to take the pills EXACTLY according to plan. To affirm compliance to this plan, the patients are subjected to random drug testing. Not just to see if they are getting high (over using them ), but also to see if they are using them at all, (i.e. not selling the pills for a massive profit ). IIRC, if you show up to your test and they find no painkillers in your urine, you can be taken OFF the plan, i.e. no pills for you.

tl;dr they drug test patients to make sure a precise plan is being followed because there are at least 4 separate "failure modes" to chronic pain management.

I learned most of this from news articles and reading junkie's tales on /r/opiates. I'm not an expert, nor user, but I just find the whole topic very interesting. Please correct me if I've said anything wrong.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#32

What are the rates like compared to other countries? Does the US just over prescribe painkillers, meaning more flood to the blackmarket? Is it people are getting it from the Dr and accidentally ODing? Are the Drs prescribing without care, so those who want the drug for a high and no medical reason can? I never knew painkillers to be used as party drug / fun drug in the UK (outside of the heroin using demographic) nor…

Some of the prescription opioids are contaminated with Tylenol, which is very toxic to the liver when consumed in excess.

They incorporate tylenol to help prevent addiction and overdose. Too much tylenol makes you sick - very unpleasantly. Too much opiods and you feel great, until you die. The tylenol is designed to provide an edge to taking too much so that the curve correlatibg dose to pleasure doesn't always angle upwards. Being very sick, and even having liver problems is generally better than death.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#33
post #2

So painkillers used against prescription kill more people than any individual illegal drug and since people demand painkillers to treat chronic pain physicians are looking to treat chronic pain with alternatives one such is using MJ as one of those alternatives because misuse doesn't result in fatal overdoses, generally. Vox, stop with the hyperbola.

Opiate pain relief is orders of magnitude better than marijuana.

It's more orders of magnitude more dangerous and addictive (in that marijuana is almost impossible to OD on, and isn't addictive at all).

Marijuana is certainly not the magical silver bullet some make it out to be, but it's incredibly effective for many people whose only other recourse would be opiates.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#34

I've lost at least two elderly, extended family members this way. Both applied both a patch and took a pill, which caused an OD. The issue is that many opioids and non opioids gap between the therapeutic dose range and LD50% is often dangerously narrow. Complication #0: serum bioavailable molecule assay is rarely monitored. People metabolize and clear drugs at vastly differently rates. Complication #1: Hospital mista…

> overprescription of opioids because they're cheap

It's a bit scary how eager doctors are to prescribe them. "Hey doc, I'm in pain" – "Here's a bottle of painkillers, NEXT" Bitch, I don't want painkillers, I want you to figure out why my body is hurting when it's not supposed to. It's surprisingly frustrating to talk doctors into looking for the cause instead of treating the symptom.

Thankfully, the metamizole they kept filling me up with is not nearly as addictive as opioids and we have free health care, so I didn't have to pay a dime for the repeated blood analyses and CT it took find the cause. Otherwise I'd probably have bigger problems right now.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It boggles my mind that it's somehow acceptable for the folks running prisons to be able to lobby for the 3 strikes laws. http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/09/16/117661/sb1070-p...

It is built into the assumptions of the country that some people will argue in their own self interest over that of the general public. In fact, it is expected that the majority will prefer their interest over the good of the whole. It is thenjob of Congress to mediate and ignore self-serving interests, but you can't even blame them for not doing their jobs, because it's the responsibility of the people to call out t…

But the federal system in the US seems to quite successfully have been coopted by politicians who spend most of their time raising funds, to stay where they are, in collaboration with companies who supply them with funds to get laws written to suite them. I know this is a bit of a caricature, but it seems to me that it now is really hard to change this system to something which takes the money out of the politics.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#36

All it takes is one or two extra pills to get high from the standard opioid pain prescription. It would've been nice to see this mentioned in the article but it seems pretty light on content.

All it takes is the standard opioid pain prescription. That's getting high. Opioids get you high. That's what's necessary for pain relief: Altered neurological states in which pain coming in from the nervous system doesn't have such a strong effect on the conscious mind. It's that simple. Deal with it.

Drugs have effects. Usage doesn't cross some threshold dose and instantly become abuse.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#39

I've never taken an illegal drug in my life. I've smoked a cigarette about 5 times. I drank in college but lately I've cut that out of my life as well. I had a security clearance with drug testing requirements for a while and now I just don't like the feeling of a hangover from alcohol or the risk of ingesting random plants/chemicals made by shady people. In short: I'm the most vanilla, square, anti-drug person you c…

>> insane amounts of money I think you said it yourself - not to be snarky or anything. But someone has found a way to get rich, and they use their funds to lobby to keep the current system in place.

exactly. for as long as you can pour money into lobbying and thus influence (mild term) laws, those laws governing people, lives, don't expect anything good to happen. of course the current system allows ways to fight against this but those ways are so hard implement compared to the way of lobbying (pour insane amount of money cause you have it and they generate even more money) that has no sense practically. am I skeptical? no. we have everything we deserve. and we will continue to have exactly what we deserve, not a single bit more or less.

Re: Painkillers now kill more Americans than any illegal drug

#40

What are the rates like compared to other countries? Does the US just over prescribe painkillers, meaning more flood to the blackmarket? Is it people are getting it from the Dr and accidentally ODing? Are the Drs prescribing without care, so those who want the drug for a high and no medical reason can? I never knew painkillers to be used as party drug / fun drug in the UK (outside of the heroin using demographic) nor…

I probably should have read the article ------- Since the 1990s, doctors have been under more and more pressure to treat pain as a serious medical issue. Pharmaceutical companies took advantage of this desire, marketing opioid painkillers like OxyContin and Vicodin as a safe, effective solution to pain. ------ privatised health care and the profit incentive to prescribe high cost pain kills. I believe the Drs get a k…

OT, but...

> I always find this funny who we in the west call this "donations" but when reporting on third world countries it is termed a "bribed".

Well, if resolving the hypocrisy would mean calling our bribes by "donations", please, let it unresolved.

We at third world countries gain a lot from your transparent accounting of what happens here.

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