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Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

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Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#31

Post by Zev »

samuel wrote: post #30
Zev wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

running Android, Ubuntu, or Chromium Then its not an iPad competitor or alternative. It might be a tablet, but it is not in the same market as Apple is in with the iPad. None of these three OS's is a drastic change from what a computer is or how a computer is currently used, which the iPad is shaping up to be.

I can't agree. What's revolutionary about the iPad? Only that isn't running a desktop OS? There have been Windows CE tablets for ages. The difference is realization, which is everything, of course, it's the difference between Altavista and Google. The iPad will be successful But revolutionary? On other side, you have the first device that it's at the same time, a tablet and a eink reader. I don't know if it will be s…

The iPad isn't about hardware, at all. The iPad is about getting away from the hardware. About having a completely new way to use a computer. Yes, to do the same tasks you do now. But to do them in a better way.

That this device is betting on hardware to beat Apple means that they've already lost. That they had to resort to comparing their device to a MacBook Pro with the brightness turned down to have a selling point looks desperate. The tablet these guys are selling doesn't offer a new way to go about your routine. It just offers a more complex device to go about your daily routine.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#32

Post by Zev »

cookiecaper wrote: post #26
Zev wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Otherwise, it's basically the same concept ... In that case, cell phones aren't a new concept. Its the same as talking to my neighbor, only through this speaker... Or maybe a car isn't a novel concept. It is, after all, the same as walking somewhere. Only slower. Or even a book. Its just another representation of stories that have been told verbally for thousands of years, after all. Sharing functional similarities i…

No, man, it's different. The iPhone/iPad isn't any kind of great boon or new magic thing. Like, cars are much different than walking because while both are means of getting from one place to another place, the cars is several dozen times faster. That's a huge improvement in the "getting somewhere" field. The same with cell phones. Cell phones are a huge boon because they allow you to call people almost anywhere. They…

The touching might make the interface more humane

Bingo. This is exactly it. it makes things more humane. Easier. You don't have to worry about where you saved that file to. There's no accidentally deleting a folder that had an important document among a dozens of useless files.

You don't need to use a clunky device to click on something. You use your finger and you push the screen. Which a lot of people do anyway, to point to something on their screen. Only, it doesn't do anything for them yet.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#33

Post by cookiecaper »

Zev wrote: post #32
cookiecaper wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, man, it's different. The iPhone/iPad isn't any kind of great boon or new magic thing. Like, cars are much different than walking because while both are means of getting from one place to another place, the cars is several dozen times faster. That's a huge improvement in the "getting somewhere" field. The same with cell phones. Cell phones are a huge boon because they allow you to call people almost anywhere. They…

The touching might make the interface more humane Bingo. This is exactly it. it makes things more humane. Easier. You don't have to worry about where you saved that file to. There's no accidentally deleting a folder that had an important document among a dozens of useless files. You don't need to use a clunky device to click on something. You use your finger and you push the screen. Which a lot of people do anyway, t…

Such an interface is not a major boon, or it would have been implemented many years ago. Touch screens are not a new technology, they've been around for more than twenty years. They may be becoming more popular right now, and Apple may be exploiting that with the iPad/iPhone, but it by no means deserves a comparison with such revolutions as the cell phone or automobile.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#34

Post by cookiecaper »

Zev wrote: post #29
cookiecaper wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu actually released a netbook remix that would handle much better on something like this than the traditional GNOME desktop. Take a look: http://www.canonical.com/projects/ubuntu/unr

The iPad (and this tablet, for that matter) is not a netbook. Throwing Gnome without the bar on the bottom on it won't magically make Ubuntu usable on the tablet in any way that makes sense. I can go compile an X server for the iPhone and run all of those apps on it as well (or, most of them. Some apps or their dependancies might do weird things with bits that may break). That doesn't mean that I will have a good exp…

These tablets are essentially netbooks that use a touch screen instead of a mouse. As such, I think that UNR would be pretty much just as usable on this as it would on a netbook.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#35

Post by Que »

Zev wrote: post #28
wvenable wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait.. the iPad runs the same OS as the iPhone (slightly modified) and this tablet runs the same OS as the Droid (slightly modified). So how is this not directly comparable?

The core of OS X and Springboard might be shared, but if you think that the UI of the applications on the iPad shared with the iPhone, might I suggest that you go and watch the iPad release video where Steve Jobs shows the device off? From what I've seen in the video, this device doesn't have much custom UI and the main selling point is hardware. Also this tablet might also run Ubuntu or ChromeOS. Which means that th…

> Also this tablet might also run Ubuntu or ChromeOS. Which means that the OS won't be nearly as integrated with the hardware as it is on the iPad. Or that the tablet's UI won't be designed specifically for the device it is on. Or apps that it will run won't be designed specifically for the device and instead will be generic, to the lowest common denominator (which, most of the time, will be a phone, not a tablet).

Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems this means you would prefer a device that didn't have any advanced capabilities so that way all applications won't attempt to use any? Making the iPad without any extensibility was a design choice because it would be easier to make applications uniform? You would prefer to use a hindered device by design rather then software that selects its functionality based on available hardware? By contrast a gigantic portion of applications for the iPad will be designed to be run on a phone... the iPhone. I think you underestimate or don't fully understand Android.

I don't intend to sound condescending here, I am truly curious.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#36

Post by Zev »

Que wrote: post #35
Zev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core of OS X and Springboard might be shared, but if you think that the UI of the applications on the iPad shared with the iPhone, might I suggest that you go and watch the iPad release video where Steve Jobs shows the device off? From what I've seen in the video, this device doesn't have much custom UI and the main selling point is hardware. Also this tablet might also run Ubuntu or ChromeOS. Which means that th…

> Also this tablet might also run Ubuntu or ChromeOS. Which means that the OS won't be nearly as integrated with the hardware as it is on the iPad. Or that the tablet's UI won't be designed specifically for the device it is on. Or apps that it will run won't be designed specifically for the device and instead will be generic, to the lowest common denominator (which, most of the time, will be a phone, not a tablet). P…

Personally, I prefer a platform, where I won't potentially run into an application designed for a device with hardware that I don't have. I would prefer a device that is consistent. It doesn't have to do everything under the the sun. It just has to do what it claims to be able to do, well.

By contrast a gigantic portion of applications for the iPad will be designed to be run on a phone... the iPhone

Can't really talk about specific UIKit additions, due to the NDA. But, there are plenty of them designed specifically for the iPad. Skim through this photo set: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fraserspeirs/sets/7215762322426... to see a lot of the things added in by Apple that devs can (and almost definitely will) be using in their apps.

I think you underestimate or don't fully understand Android.

So all of the stories about apps working on one phone but not another, on 1.5 but not 1.6, with a physical keyboard but not an on screen one, they're not true?

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#37

Post by sunchild »

jimmyjim wrote: post #24
amandle wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiveling cameras are not a new idea, Sony picture books had one at least ten years ago: http://www.transmetazone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=381&#...

He mentions in the video that he filed a patent for it not so long ago. I suppose there might prove to be a few problems there that may ultimately end up delaying its release, or worse, killing it altogether.

Filing a patent != having a patent. The Sony device is clearly prior art. I had one of those Sony's, BTW.

I can't believe anyone would compare this device favorably vs. an iPad. That's willful ignorance, I guess.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#38

Post by SwellJoe »

dzlobin wrote: post #21
cwilson wrote: post #7

When there is a device like this that I can walk into a store and play with before buying as well as have access to thousands of quality applications that make my life easier or more fun then I'll consider it a competitor to the iPad. Until then this is nothing more then a cool gadget that likely won't see the light of day inside any major retailer. The iPad is currently the only "tablet" that will ever see mass cons…

>The app store is unlike anything else out there, If you run Ubuntu on the Adam, I'm pretty sure the internet w/o limitations > the app store.

It's always been amazing to me that Apple has managed to convince a sizable number of otherwise intelligent people that a walled garden, tightly controlled by an overbearing schoolmarm, is preferable to the Internet and a totally free market.

The app store is a huge bug, not a feature. It's just plain bad for developers (because Apple owns yours customers and the pipeline to those customers, and can cut you off without warning if you happen to compete with them or do something they don't like), and bad for consumers (because the approval process slows updates, puts a filter in the relationship between developer and user, keeps useful applications out of users hands, and insures that Open Source applications have almost no room in the market). If consumers (and developers) were smarter, it would be a killer bug; one that prevented anyone from ever buying an iPhone or iPad or developing for it. But, people don't always act in their own best long-term interest, if the packaging is pretty enough.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#39

Post by glymor »

weaksauce wrote: post #10
sjs382 wrote: post #6

This is exactly what I was hoping for from the Apple Tablet.

I agree with you to a degree. I would like the Apple Tablet to have those features except I want the Apple tablet to have the same screen that it does now. I know that a good portion of HN readers appreciate the difference between a TN Screen and the IPS screen that Apple is putting in the iPad. The epaper screen in this tablet is just not the way that apple wants to go with a tablet. It's also a direction that I don…

This has a Pixel Qi screen not a e-ink screen. (The OLPC screen has the same technology.)

It has the same reaction speed as a LCD. I'm not sure how good the colour mode is (probably TN level). The monochrome mode has 3 times the DPI (because of each RGB sub-pixel).

About e-ink readers: it's not the DPI. They generally have 160dpi which is lower than many mobile LCDs. For example the N770 I used to read on had a 225 dpi screen but I'm still faster on e-ink. I'm not sure what it is, it might just be the lack of backlight.

Re: Video: Notion Ink Adam, iPad alternative

#40

Post by Lazlo_Nibble »

SwellJoe wrote: post #38
dzlobin wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The app store is unlike anything else out there, If you run Ubuntu on the Adam, I'm pretty sure the internet w/o limitations > the app store.

It's always been amazing to me that Apple has managed to convince a sizable number of otherwise intelligent people that a walled garden, tightly controlled by an overbearing schoolmarm, is preferable to the Internet and a totally free market. The app store is a huge bug, not a feature. It's just plain bad for developers (because Apple owns yours customers and the pipeline to those customers, and can cut you off witho…

What amazes me is the number of otherwise-apparently-intelligent people who appear to honestly believe that Apple users are just vapid trendoids who are fooled by all the pretty colors. Strangely, none of them seem to have figured out how to slap the same pretty colors onto their otherwise-superior products/platforms and carve out a chunk of the vapid trendoid market for themselves. How hard can it be?
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